Coming Soon - Demonologist Prestige Class

[*Nerull]

Cere, when you revamp the Summon Trees, can you also take the time to revamp Warlock, Blackguard and Pale Master summons as well?

[*FriendlyNecromancer]

Pale Master summons really need some help. They are plain useless, and I mean it.
Besides the new vamp summon at 9-10, that's awesome but once again you only get it at level 9.

[*shadowblizmasta]

I have to agree with that. The near capstone Vampire Warrior is pretty damn powerful for a summon, if a bit dumb due to AI, but the rest of them just kind of fall apart like wet tissue paper. The AC, immunities, and elite vampire are almost enough to make up for it, but it would be nice if the PM could have useful other undead summons.

[*Aslya]

Summons are very difficult to balance.

maxed PM/BG/SD summons should be on par with mages/clerics/druids best non-epic summons.

But demonologist summons should be better than any of those, and probably even better than epic summons (by the way, would epic summons benefit from the augment summon/demonologist class feature ?), since it's a 10 lvl investment entirely focused on summons, unlike PM/BG/SD, and at the high cost of 3 caster levels.


Easy to write; hard to do.

[*Tomekk]

PMs sacrifice 5 caster-levels for some AC, a barely functional touch attack and a capstone ability that simply doesn't work... I think they also deserve a summon that is worth the losses.

[*Aslya]

Immunity to criticals (but yes, not to sneak attack, contrary to NWN) is not nothing; but yes, they should get a better summon than the actual ones; especially before the vampire elite. But not on par with the coming demonologist.

Why ? Because they still get goodies not to be compared to the barely worth +2 AC against outsiders and the decent (but you're mage, hello elemental immunities anyway) 10/ elemental demonologist will get.


"Some" AC ? It's +6 at lvl 8.
Darkvision.
+4 Fortitude.
Immunity to hold, paralysis, stun.
Then, critical hits.

The touch attack is bad, though yes.

[*Orlitoq]

It's definitely a different playstyle...

But it is a play I have been wanting to see for a LOOOOOOONG thyme, and you have me salivating with anticipation!

Good question about whether or not the Epic spell Gate is affected by class features! If you had not asked that I was going to do so. I fear that the answer will be "no" but I pray otherwise.

EDIT: Aslya brings up the +2 AC Vs Outsiders issue... Does that stack with all other kinds of AC or is that immediately eclipsed by gear?

[*shadowblizmasta]

My Palemaster is pretty damn effective as a gish. Off the top of my head, I think his AC is around 60, which barring a few specific builds that use Divine Shield is pretty respectable.

[*Ceremorph]

I am planning on revisiting the class-based summons, as well as Gate and Epic Gate. I don't think I'm planning to apply the Summoing Mastery to Gate/Epic Gate, but instead I might just make a little tweak that favors demonologists in the script. Wait and find out is the rule of the day, as this is part of Phase II.

But first, I'm going to look at the "regular" summons, since they're both the most common and the highest quantity.

Right now, the Demonologist ability ONLY works with these spells. But it does mean you're getting a better version of every level.

The AC vs. Outsiders is dodge-based.

[*Orlitoq]

Ceremorph, you had mentioned that this is Phase II. How many phases are there in building a new class?

Along with the old summoner discussion I mentioned previously was the idea of adding a radial menu to Summoning spells; somewhat akin to how Shape Shift lets you choose one of 4 forms.

The benefit of this was that it allowed themed casters to select critters that fell within their theme, rather than be the Pyromancer who has a lot of Water Elemental friends.

Is that option something that either is in the works, or could be added later to the summons? Even identical stat blocks with different skins would make for a sense of customization and variety.