Idea: Optional Permadeath

[*Tildryn]

As others have mentioned, there's a very easy optional permadeath. Just stop playing the character if you die.

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with Ceremorph. Behold the end of the world. :P

[*redgolem]

No... although in theory it sounds good, there are too many accidental deaths possible (getting disconnected in mid battle, idiot player running around in town killing everyone, etc)... so it would be a major headache to dm's, to the point where I'd say "any permadeath is to be raised by dm if they ask", and that again means the whole purpose has vanished.

If you want permadeath, do it with your own honor instead... if you die, don't play the character anymore.

Good point. I'm just glad I've never experienced nor seen those kinds of accidental deaths yet. They've all just been through my own damn foolhardiness and lack of weight in consequences in getting the characters into such dangerous situations where they probably wouldn't have gone themselves.

I'll declare now that I'll be playing my characters Rolf and Coal as non-resurrecting characters (except those accidental deaths cases you described). I hope I can honor that declaration. Help is appreciated.

[*Product of Void]

waste of scripting, easily exploited. Can also backfire easily as cryptic posted.

If you want to perma your character that is your choice just quit using them.

No way of rp is better then another. We all have our comfort levels and limits what we expect or enjoy. Just because one is not willing to do what another is does not make them better or worse.

[*redgolem]

waste of scripting, easily exploited.  Can also backfire easily as cryptic posted.

If you want to perma your character that is your choice just quit using them. 

No way of rp is better then another.  We all have our comfort levels and limits what we expect or enjoy.  Just because one is not willing to do what another is does not make them better or worse.

Wow, thank you for such constructive criticism and thoughtful discussion of the idea. <_<

It is moot now, but I think that you may have missed the whole point in that this was an idea for an *optional* *automatic* permadeath for only those who wanted it, not something that is forced or imposed upon anyone, "because we all have our comfort levels and limits of what we expect and enjoy," as you said. It is interesting to see how fear sets in with even the mention of the word permadeath, no matter how benign or voluntary it is.

Regarding constructive discussion: I hope we can have a more constructive discussion next time. Rather than essentially only poking holes at the idea and not offering anything new, let us see how we can alter an idea to make it better, get around those holes, understand the needs that the idea is trying to address, and how to better meet those needs. Simply stating the status quo as the solution means that one may be missing the underlying need that an idea is trying to address, a need that the status quo may not be effectively meeting.

Where there is a lack of constructive discussion, there often soon comes a lack of new ideas. The reverse is true as well, so I offer this idea, and hope to see constructive mature discussion (which I know most of you are capable of having seen your RP):

New Idea:

Simply add a door somewhere in the mortuary (or some other non-combat zone) that actually leads back to that server lobby (the entrance area with the red floors) so it is easier for those who do play out the self-deleting permadeath, or want to drink of the Styx. (If there already is one, please post!)

Pros:
+ allows you access to the delete and styx functions without waiting for the server to crash or reboot
+ damn simple to implement without any scripting - just add an area transition
+ serves as a way of getting to a simple OOC lounge, which is useful for other purposes than just deleting/deleveling
+ can only be accessed from a boring safe area like the mortuary (no offense to Dustmen) that is far removed from combat and exploitation.

Cons:
- Player still needs to work up the willpower to go there and delete/delevel

[*Product of Void]

The thing is this the optional idea could backfire due to lag I know my characters have died by it. Many others will have the same problem, rather sucks.

The great thing about rp is freedom, having an automated system that removes the freedom is not fun. Plus giving a boon of say +10% xp is easily exploit. Seeing parties get xp even if player 4 stands by the portal you could just hide and do summons while sucking xp.

If there is a switch to go back and forth from hardcore to not means that after you have used up the xp bonus you can switch. Who cares after 30?

Next the perma thing does this mean that ANY rez spell fails as well? if so have to rescript 3-4 spells abilties to fix that to check for if perma or not. If rez spells DO work ....shoot sign me up could use free xp. see another exploit.

Besides those spells you have to modify the re-spawn and on death scripts. This is just for the problems I see most likely there is more. All this for an optional feature that few might use? A lot of work to stack on staff.

What is this business about modifying other builds to punish them for not taking the "optional" system? by removing epic feats?

saves low?
Items that boost saves very possible to get +8~+10
enchant for +4
get stat boost enchantment +2~+3
That is +14~+17 to all saves. Figure if UMD enough to use superior resistance scrolls +6
then its +20~+23 to saves.

One feat can swap con to will saves and make it so fort saves do not fail on one so if its a low wisdom build can go from -1 to +3 or more (figuring 8wisdom 16 con).
base 8will save +3 +14 =25.

worst spells I have encountered around 30dc so figure 25% chance of failure. not to bad. As for low will save the biggest problem for will save is aura affects of fear which means eventually you will fail and run off to die. Just a matter of time unless some protection from mind ability or spell used.


now my suggestion, I once wanted gollems or a certain area on a server. After a few request I got the okay though most staff was busy not surprising. So I built it.

Any major scripting or area suggestion I recommend the player build it then submit it. That will increase the chances of having it by A LOT.

why the need to delete it immediately? why not wait to a server reset or just log out?

I played on a server with a system much like suggested.

xp penalty on respawn under X level with random item loss. Less you found a drop and used it instead also loose all gold. On occasion folks would sit in the dead area waiting to get dm pity or have a friend drag their corpse to the temple. This lead to folks grinding areas low level for less risk and to try to attain the item to respawn as needed. Which lead to dms seeking to penalise those they found doing so removing gold/xp. The fact I am not there now might show my view of it.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Want my idea why this conversation is even had? ;) People have too much time now that server isn't up and spend it on the forums, argument is inevitable.

[*StealthedAssailant]

The reason why people are picking holes into the idea.. is because it's a bad one. Any more questions?

It's a lot of work for someone to implement for the few who cannot control themselves from quiting a PC they deemed already dead. Why add a feature to promote hypocrisy?

I also agree that if you want something bad enough, make it yourself. If you don't have the skill set to do something yourself don't expect staff (especially developers, which I am BTW, for another PW) to be so excited on implementing an auxiliary system or even trying to entertain the idea. Most PW's have a full agenda that their entire team are working towards already. Knowing that, I tend to keep my face out of their business unless there is a post asking for help or suggestions concerning a certain function of the module.

[*redgolem]

The reason why people are picking holes into the idea.. is because it's a bad one. Any more questions?

:( Ouch. No need to be so harsh. You must be suffering from some serious server withdrawal symptoms.

P.S. Perhaps someone should just post a big disclaimer on the general discussion forum saying: "PLEASE DON'T POST ANY IDEAS OR THOUGHTS HERE. IF WE WANT THEM, WE'LL ASK FOR THEM."

[*Synyster Spirit]

The reason why people are picking holes into the idea.. is because it's a bad one.  Any more questions?

:( Ouch. No need to be so harsh. You must be suffering from some serious server withdrawal symptoms.

P.S. Perhaps someone should just post a big disclaimer on the general discussion forum saying: "PLEASE DON'T POST ANY IDEAS OR THOUGHTS HERE. IF WE WANT THEM, WE'LL ASK FOR THEM."

Restrictions do not encourage or endorse more hardcore RP, it only frustrates players.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I'm locking this thread... since it apparently doesn't seem to get anywhere, other than saying same thing over and over again. Ideas are welcome still, though does not mean we will go with them, but we'll hear them out.