Sure Is Quiet!

[*Tomekk]

I see player-versus-player conflict is being mentioned a lot as a solution to stagnation... but its simply not, in my opinion. At the end of a conflict, which is a usually a short time of flaring emotions and tempers, someone is going to win big and someone else is going to lose a lot of hours and effort, with their character most likely crippled beyond repair or killed off. That's a good way of making someone quit the game for good, as this isn't exactly a typical multiplayer game where you just start another game as if nothing happened.

Besides, the majority of players here are in for a more casual, care free experience, and no one is really keen on logging on to hear their group/character got defeated at X and now they can no longer do Y.

Now conflict against NPCs on the other hand... that's actually what this whole thing called D&D is about, after all. :P

[*Itikar]

Well, the bazaar had been torn asunder during an event some three months ago, I'd hardly say there is stagnation and immutability.

What I found a bit odd, on the other hand, was that even hanging in the destroyed bazaar for a good while I hardly ever heard anybody discussing why it had been turned into that state apart for a few extremely vague allusions.

So even for events and plots I suppose it is the same story of player numbers: advertising is crucial.

[*Summer Wind]

We've been through all of this a dozen times in the past, haven't we? We know SCoD's major flaws:

-Leveling is crazy fast to level 20, normal to level 29, and then takes ten years to achieve level 30

-Gear is broken. Just broken. It's never worked on SCoD. Ever. Drops are too rare, broad and random, every single player outfits themselves at the whim of PC merchants, which means grinding for ways to make cash. And no one likes grinding.

-Gear is still broken. It's either laughably overpowered and therefore the default thing everyone is trying to get, or it's not that one laughably overpowered thing and is thus relegated to Electrifier fodder.

-Gear yet remains broken. SCoD is that server you play on where your character's power is determined in minor part by build and in most part by the gear you have.

-The setting and plots. We don't use the setting to flavor our plots. At all. This is the server set in Sigil by happenstance, where we run save-the-world plots more appropriate to a Forgotten Realms server, than something Planescape oriented.

Like I said, we know these problems, we've been complaining about them for years, and... never fixed them. Every time we do this we agree almost unanimously on what the problems are and then... never fix them. So, what are we talking about here? Are we having our semi-annual moan and groan about problems that we'll... never fix? Or are we actually going to do something about it this time?

Let's face facts. NWN and NWN2 are dying. Together there are perhaps 400 people left on the planet who play these two games, and yeah, we're competing for those numbers. 30 on SCoD are 30 who aren't on Baldur's Gate or Haven. But why should they be on SCoD? This question has been asked in this thread already, and even I'm pressed to come up with a good answer.

I love SCoD. I really do. I'm planning on sticking around, hoping that it revitalizes, but it's not going to happen in a big way without some real changes. Changes that will require work, and changes that some people just won't like. Changes like seriously overhauling the server's approach to equipment. And no, it's not a matter of the drop tables being bugged. In all my years here I've never been able to remotely outfit my characters based on drops. It's bigger than that.

For example: SCoD completely gimps a prestige class because of how powerful certain longbows are. One more time: An item makes a prestige class obsolete. Yep.

That's just one example. Gear drops too rarely, when it does drop it's too powerful, and with the crafting system those things can become even more powerful. This creates a vicious cycle of gear requirement and difficulty and what we end up with is a world in which every single adventurer laughs if those boots aren't Sun Soul +5.

Maybe it's time to revisit the concept of SCoD and Planescape, and get back to its roots. Maybe it's time to acknowledge that the solution isn't to diversify, but to take several steps back and try again with new wisdom in hand. No, I'm not talking about a vault wipe. But I am talking about reworked equipment, I am talking about new loot tables, I am talking about re-balancing the scales.

It will take a lot of work and it will cause a ruckus. But what's left? We're in the last stretches of the NWN/NWN2 era now. We can either accept that SCoD is flawed and ride it out as is, with a few band-aids slapped on to help it along, but a few new events and plots aren't going to solve the actual problems. The problems are bone deep here. They always have been.

[*Niryain]

Organized my thoughts on gear better than I managed, and I agree. My gearing path is scrounge up enough gear to be able to do the Baator swamp reasonably then pawn off devil bloods at about 300 a pop to pay my way to the +5/best/set gear in each slot whenever I'm lucky enough to see a PC merchant on. That system is really not good, and prone to failure after a point. Know why? Because gold has an end point of use. Once a merchant has their house they stop merchanting. And I don't blame them, as it's a boring and tedious task to set up your stalls then basically AFK while people window shop and sometimes buy. I have better things to do with my time and so do most people.

So yes, the gear system is fundamentally what hurts alts and new players because it's impossible to advance save for the whims of someone else who might not have a long term investment into being there. And that's a kind of systemic problem that needs deep changes. My only worry about the suggestion is the Grandfathering Thing. Wouldn't do to rework loot tables to not obsolete a PrC if old PCs still keep that bow. And so forth.

[*MimiFearthegn]

I don't think you're going to find too many arguments on gear being an issue, and it not just having to do with the current drops. Its been widely bandied about that we needed an economic overhaul for years now, and hopefully this is the year!

In the short term, the plan is to add in more quests to get gear at low levels. The reworked bazaar quests are kind of the first taste of that (though yes, those are all gold).

[*Whitefly]

*Points at Summer Wind*

*Gives a thumbs up*

[*Sinlinara]

Factions are nice, but they require people to join them. As it is, too few people do and those that do are spread thin across the 15 factions.


As for people not talking about why the Bazaar was destroyed. . . At one point I felt like my character was nothing but an exposition machine telling the entire story from start to finish ad nauseum. I suppose we just never ran into each other.

[*zethrenx99]

I Think Events will go a long way, but they need to be open generalized events maybe having a couple of em's working on one plot line so that as many people who are interested as possible can be involved. We are in the center of the multiverse! anything one could think of could and would happen on a daily basis and those one couldn't think of even more so :lol:. I currently don't a lot of time, but soon I will be able to focus a little more on some plots and such, Shoot them out to the EM team. I think a forum for plot idea's that is accessible only to EM/DM's would be good, i don't know if one exists already (and i haven't really looked to be honest.)

I would make one point about stability though, and this could just be my own personal preference, but i think that a little instability can go a long way in keeping people interested. I've actually seen quite a few new players lately and many of them are keeping around, but i think that maybe having the prospect of flux, that is, everything in the server isn't already set in stone but is instead a growing and organic thing is a good way to keep new and old players invigorated. So what does this mean in practice? Perhaps some open faction power struggles? Things of that nature that would give players a feeling that their actions will make a difference. Maybe try to Run some faction recruiting events? Try to keep new players informed of the different factions and give them an ease of access to those communities.

But I love the server, the setting and the people that keep it going in game and behind the scenes! I have no doubt that we can drag all those nwn2 players back here by force ';..;'

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Oh I agree entirely, stability shouldn't equal to IC stagnation. When I say stability, I mean on the OOC side rather than IC side. I do believe that IC should be governed with entirely different set of ideologies. And EMs do already have a forum for discussing plot ideas, which is visible for DMs also, DMs do have their own forums visible only by them.

[*zethrenx99]

Ah I see ^^, I suppose I misunderstood. Where is the forum under?