Got a question about those "builds"?

*Lost and not Found
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Lost and not Found »


That idea is only useless if you are planning on picking up Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical and Power Critical feats to all those weapons.


Suggestions:
  • - Unarmed strike, querterstaff and kama can be used with the monk ability called Flurry of Blows.

    Using the said ability grants you extra attacks at a cost of decreased Attack Bonus. The extra attacks are not applied if your character is wearing an armor or carrying a shield, though the attack bonus decrease still sticks. The number of these bonus attacks increases by one at monk level 11, and the attack bonus decrease decreases from -2 to -1 at monk level 5 and dissappears at the level 9.
  • - Getting one level of monk grants you some decent unarmed feats for free and gaining monk levels in general improves your unarmed strike damage.
  • - Fighter levels can be used to gain extra feats when necessary and to get almost every profiency feat there is for free.
So, I would pick two base classes Monk and Fighter for this build.

I'd get the strength and wisdom ablity scores around 14-16, while raising the dexterity score as high as possible. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to have constitution, charisma or intelligence as a dumb stat, but for this build charisma and intelligence are less needed ability scores.

*As for the feats, I presume it is a plausible goal to reach level 20.

Weapon Finesse: You are going to have high dexterity, with this feat the ability score will improve your unarmed strike, kama, and shortsword attack bonus.
1 Feat.

Two-weapon fighting feats: I would not try to get the the Two-Weapon Defense feats, so focus on the Fighting ones.
3 Feats.

Archery: With the bows that do not require ammunition - you can buy them from Jezebel(Spelling?) in the Great Bazaar - archery is little less useless. Nonetheless, Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot are decent feats to get for any ranged character. Improved Rapid Shot really improves the Rapid shot, but unfortunately it requires you to pick up the Manyshot feat first which is almost completly useless feat. The only use for the manyshot feat is when you cannot hit your opponent unless you roll a natural 20.

(If you need to roll a 20 to hit something, it simply means that your AB doesn't have an effect when it comes down to hitting the foe. I would try to pull off as much of damage as possible on those rolls of 20. (Manyshot and Power Attacks.))

Unfortunately I do not think there are returning Shurikens. Nonetheless it is worth to mention how monk can use Flurry of Blows to throw shurikens. Thus, Monks get free Improved-Improved Rapid Shot for free.
4 Feats.

Power attacks: If your character is wielding a weapon with both hands, go for the power attacks for extra damage. Power attack feat is required for the Cleave feats, those feats grant you extra attacks when you kill something. The benefit from Great Cleave is arguable if your character is not capable of pulling one-hit-kill-criticals.
4 Feats.

Combat Expertise: It requires that your character has an intelligence score of at least 13. Instead of damage it improves your AC.
2 Feats.

Weapon Proficiencies: You get bow and shortsword profiency from your first fighter level. For Katana You need to pick Weapon Profiency (Exotic).
1 Feat.


Thus, to get all of these feats you need to get 13 feats by the level 20. Natural Feat progression gives you 7 feats by the level 18, so we need 5 extra feats.

You get those at levels; 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, and you get them regardless of what class you coose to level up your character as.

You get fighter bonus feats at levels: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, but only if you have the required amount of fighter levels.

So, we go for 11 levels of monk, which leaves us with 9 levels to play with. From what I've listed we can spot how you can get the needed extra 5 feats with 8 levels of fighter and thus we got the the required amount of feats by the level 19.

Take notice how "Humans" get one extra feat and some skill bonussess.


Yes, it is not the best character around, but it is indeed do-able and not utterly useless. It isn't able to reach the insane criticals or smites or sneak attacks some other builds can, but it should be alright and able to level just by on it's own.

(Not to mention being a lot more interesting character than those cookie-cutter-scythe-wielders without enough depth to form a pond, if it happened to rain on them.)
*cdnspr
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *cdnspr »


I've got a question. My character has 3 levels in Cleric, 12 wisdom, and one domain that grants a bonus spell in 2nd level spells. I don't normally play casters, so I'm not 100%, but I was expecting 3 2nd-level spell slots at this level, yet I only get 2. My excel sheet (i use cbc2) says I should get 3 as well. Can someone clarify where I'm missing that extra slot?
*Mr_Otyugh
Posts: 2242
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Mr_Otyugh »


Regarding cryptcs wish:
I would go with strength/wisdom based ranger/monk (with other classes too, but I'd take at least 11 ranger / 1 monk levels... rest of it is up to you.)

1) Ranger levels to get free two weapon fighting feats without needing high dex which doesn't fit to katanas.
2) monk, because ranger requires you to wield light/no armor to use two weapon fighting, also more AC this way, and make use of Zen Archery to get AB for ranged weapons.

Lacks:
- Damage... would suggest taking some rogue/assassin/cleric/SF/bard levels on top of it myself.
- AC... which might make druid/SF/bard levels a tad more useful also.

*edit* Oh and just go for cleric or favored soul does it :P no specialization needed to way or another, and you'll be mediocre at worst.

------
cdnspr

Domains don't grant bonus spell slots, they grant bonus spells to be selected to your spell slots (like say plant gives 'barkskin' to be selectable from the spell list, but not a bonus spellslot). Only ways to get bonus spell slots is to get more wisdom / extra spell slot feats / items with extra spell slots.
*Lost and not Found
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Lost and not Found »


At level 3 Cleric gains the ability to cast level 2 spells and according to the class progression one second level spell slot. Extra spell slots can be earned by gaining extra levels or increasing your spell casting ability score.

With wisdom of 12, you get one extra spell slot for first level spells, with wisdom of at least 14 you would get one extra second level spell slot.

The Domain Spell Slot: All clerics get it regardless of of their domains. So, one extra spell slot per spell level.

With 4 levels in a spell casting class you can select the Extra Slot feats. The feat adds an extra spell slot to any of X - 1 spell level of your choice, the X is the highest spell level you can cast.

So, with the information you've given, I'd say got the right amount of second levels pells.
*Lost and not Found
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Lost and not Found »


Yes, I considered the ranger option aswell, however, I turned it down because of these reasons:

To get combat style mastered you need to get 11 levels of ranger, to get it perfected you need to get 21 levels of ranger. Thus going for ranger limits your multiclassing options. In addition when you pick your combat style it has to be either archery or two-weapon fighting. If you want have both of them you need to spend all your ability score increases in dexterity. One of the reasons why some go for the ranger class is to avoid the need of high dexterity.

And to avoid experience penalties, you would need to play with a race that has either monk or ranger as favored class. (Majority of races have fighter as their favored class.)

And as a cherry on top of the cake, rangers do not get a lot of feats to spend around.


And regarding one of Mr_Otyugh's earlier suggestions:
Getting the Zen Archery feat feels like a complete and utter waste to me. I'd say this fact doesn't change with a monk level or two:

Example:
- Without the Zen Archery feat, Ranger/Monk: Dexterity and Wisdom modifiers are used to boost your unarmored AC. Dexterity boosts your ranged weapon AC.

- With the Zen Archery feat, Ranger/Monk: Dexterity and Wisdom modifiers are used to boost your unarmored AC. Wisdom boosts your ranged weapon AC.


It is true that, Katana doesn't gain benefits from dexterity but it is not that drastic handicap when it comes down to PvM:
Strength score of 14: Gauntlets of Strength +2, Katana +3. With the said items and base ability score, you got enough bonusses to be able to hit things with your BAB, when using Improved Power Attack. Your BAB should enough to hit, and you should be able to penetrate the most common damage reductions out there.

And regarding my suggestion and epic levels: With the high dexterity you should be able to get both Perfect Two-Weapon Fightning (25 Dexterity) and One Shot (27 Dexterity) feats, but achieving this may require you to start with a Dexterity score of 20.

And if you you got at least 9 levels of monk, and got 5 levels of Shadow Dancer you can go for the Epic Dodge (25 Dexterity, 30 tumble). To be able to get Shadow dancer levels requires:
- Feats: Dodge, Mobility
- Skill Points in: Tumble, Hide, Move Silently, which are monk class skills btw.


Hide in Plain Sight + One Shot + Epic Dodge, can prove to be quite annoying berk in PvP. Monk class also grants you some kick ass saves and possibly some spell resistance after 13th level, (10 + monk level).

Suggested Epic level Feat progression for 25 Dexterity characters that have level adjustment of 0 or +1:
21: Perfect Two-Weapon Figthning
23: You Decide
25: You Decide
27: Epic Dodge
29: One Shot

Suggested Epic level Feat progression for 25 Dexterity characters that have level adjustment of +2 or +3:
21: Perfect Two-Weapon Figthning
23: Great Dexterity
25: One Shot
27: Epic Dodge

For races that have greater level adjustments, it is going to be impossible to get the Epic Dodge feat, but the combat feats can be reached.
*cdnspr
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *cdnspr »


Hey, I'm looking at making a Favoured Soul with 4 levels in Blackguard (cause taking just 1-2 levels in a class is cheese). I don't normally make casters, so I could use some help.

Things I plan on doing:
  • I plan on taking Divine Might and Divine Shield, which would have to be taken on Blackguard levels, since FS doesn't get Turn Undead.
  • Will be a FS of Nerull - therefore spell selection will be primarily necromantic spells, not buffs
  • Practiced Spellcaster!
  • Devout Background
Any tips?

In addition to tips, I'm looking to have two questions answered:
  • Is raising his strength to 21 (from a probably start of 14) for Epic Divine Might viable? My feeling is no, since it'll water down his CHA or WIS (used for spell DC) and use up slots for Great STR. What do you guys think about it? Is it too big an investment?
  • Can FS take epic spells? In the list of epic spells, I dont see any that have Epic FS as a requirement.
  • Since Divine Might & Divine Shield have Turn Undead as a requirement which I gain on Blackguard level 3, can I take them at that level, or do I have to take them after that level? (as is the case with taking a PrC with an AB requirement)
Merci.
*mperantie
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *mperantie »


cdnspr,Sep 30 2009 wrote:Hey, I'm looking at making a Favoured Soul with 4 levels in Blackguard (cause taking just 1-2 levels in a class is cheese).  I don't normally make casters, so I could use some help.

Things I plan on doing:
  • I plan on taking Divine Might and Divine Shield, which would have to be taken on Blackguard levels, since FS doesn't get Turn Undead. 
  • Will be a FS of Nerull - therefore spell selection will be primarily necromantic spells, not buffs
  • Practiced Spellcaster!
  • Devout Background
Any tips?

In addition to tips, I'm looking to have two questions answered:
  • Is raising his strength to 21 (from a probably start of 14) for Epic Divine Might viable?  My feeling is no, since it'll water down his CHA or WIS (used for spell DC) and use up slots for Great STR.  What do you guys think about it?  Is it too big an investment?
  • Can FS take epic spells?  In the list of epic spells, I dont see any that have Epic FS as a requirement.
  • Since Divine Might & Divine Shield have Turn Undead as a requirement which I gain on Blackguard level 3, can I take them at that level, or do I have to take them after that level?  (as is the case with taking a PrC with an AB requirement)
Merci.
I am not a big fan of Favored Soul if you are planning to use it for offensive spell casting. The dual spell casting stats impair your effectiveness. If you are casting offensive spells you will have to pump wisdom for DC. You could gimp CHA and rely on a magic item boosting it for you to get you access to level 9 spells, but that will be contrary to your divine shield/might goals. If you want to be an offensive divine spell caster, cleric is probably a better choice. Favored soul is fine for buffing. And the divine buffing spells are quite good.

My feeling is that epic divine might is worth it. You are going to be spending a lot of points on charisma. Epic divine might doubles your charisma damage and the duration of the buff. Races with charisma or strength bonuses make it more achievable.

An example of a buffing build similar to your aims would be:
Favored Stormpriest (from Wiki)

That build is not optimal by any stretch, but it certainly would not be weak.
There are plenty of other builds in this vein on the wiki.

One of my personal favorite builds is a Cleric 8/ Frenzied Berserker 5 / Stormlord 10 / weapon master 7. That build, however, does not have divine might and shield. Instead she relies on inflicting huge amounts of damage in a short amount of time. The feats are very tight on that build so you have to be very careful about planning it in advance. For instance, war domain and a spear wielding diety are mandatory for the weapon focus (spear) prerequisite. The basic concept is a strength based weapon master with cleric buffs. Mine relies on magical items to boost her wisdom enough to cast her higher level spells which is a bit of a pain. If anyone wants me to post the build, I have it written down somewhere at home.



*Lost and not Found
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Lost and not Found »


cdnspr,Sep 30 2009 wrote: In addition to tips, I'm looking to have two questions answered:
  • Is raising his strength to 21 (from a probably start of 14) for Epic Divine Might viable? My feeling is no, since it'll water down his CHA or WIS (used for spell DC) and use up slots for Great STR. What do you guys think about it? Is it too big an investment?
  • Can FS take epic spells? In the list of epic spells, I dont see any that have Epic FS as a requirement.
  • Since Divine Might & Divine Shield have Turn Undead as a requirement which I gain on Blackguard level 3, can I take them at that level, or do I have to take them after that level? (as is the case with taking a PrC with an AB requirement)
Merci.
I'm in a bit of hurry, lots of studies and stuff...

- If you can meet the Epic Divine Might requirements, it is worth it. This really comes down to your race of choice. Some races have it easier than others.

- Low Wisdom modifier will not be optimal against those cookie-cutter-pvp situation. But, I got a feeling it will be just enough against those avarage mobs. Note, feeling is always just a feeling. But I would leave it as pretty much dumb stat. Wisdom doesn't really improve summon undead spells, which are RP-spells.

- Well, Spirit Shamans can get those spells and neither do they show up in the requirements. Hmn, lets start with a presumption that favored souls can get all the epic spells Clerics can.

- For Divine Might, you need to get it with a Blackguard class level up. So, when you get your third Blackguard level, make sure it is one that grants you a new feat.

You can select Divine Shield if you simply meet the requirements.



*[<3]
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *[<3] »


Most likely human, anything else wouldn't really worship Nerull and would be too much fuss build-wise I guess.

As for the stat distribution cdnspr, go for it if you want to rely on three stats really.
Personaly I'd focus on two of the three, IE either STR+CHA for an epic divine might'er or WIS+CHA for a high diff. caster. Three stats are hard to maintain in my personal experience. Yet if you want to do it, then the way you set them up seems the way to go.

Imo though, epic divine might isn't really necessary when you have a divine might'er with some CHA boosting spells to field. Also, when you want those high spell DCs focus on WIS and CHA alone and take spellcasting prodigy and spell focus necromancy.

[<3]


*cdnspr
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *cdnspr »


my starting stats are looking like this, after racial modifiers:
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 18

I really dont like the idea of his natural WIS being any lower than 16, given that I plan on him primarily using Slay Living, Finger of Death etc and want a decent dc on those. this won't be another buff-monkey

I also don't really want to dump any stats, since I believe in Rping stats, and I don't care to RP someone who is physically, mentally, or socially retarded at this time.

So, in order to meet the 21 STR, 21 CHA Epic Divine Might requirements, I'd have to use all 7 given stat-boosts, plus 3 epic feat slots, and end up with two good-but-not-particularly-high stats.

In this light, does Epic Divine Might seem worth it? If I were to put all 7 boosts + 3 epic feats into CHA, I'd end up with a CHA that's twice as much anyway, wouldn't I?
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