Concerning Karasuthra

[*KittyEmpress]

Entirely setting aside how I feel about the changes themselves, I'm going to give a dissenting opinion here: Just because you make something, doesn't mean it should be sacrosanct from other people touching it later on. If what you made no longer fits with what the team wants, then the team should be free to make the server better in whatever way they deem right.

This should apply to everything: areas, classes, items, and races. If something doesn't work out how the team wanted it to, and they make the decision to change it, they should be able to do it. This is a volunteer project, yes, but the quality is important and at times things that were high quality no longer fit with the qualities the server wants.



This is a server, with a like thirty contributors at this point, from over the years. If they held everything every individual builder made as something untouchable to anyone but them, then the server would, quite simply, suck.

I'm not saying any of this isn't valid too, but the creator is hardly the only person disastisifed with the change. The flow of the area was really broken up.

Really though, I only posted because I felt Rapsam was being a donut.

As I said before, I'm not judging the specific area it was done to in this case, just making a point and case that overall, what was done with it should be something up to staff decision, and not something to throw a fit over. I am speaking in a more broad, general sense of anything on the server, ever.


In this specific case, I think the way things are currently linked... honestly doesn't bother me at all, and I can go either way in terms of it being the way it is now or was before. And since the players vastly want it changed, that's cool - I would be happy with it being changed too. But not at all because Neerepha demanded it and put up this thread regarding it.

[*Neerepha]

This has everything to do with the player and not the staff only, since I'm speaking to them and telling them I didn't want this.
I never said that the area is untouchable, I just wanted the changes to be discussed with me. I could have suggested something else, work something out along with the needs of the server. This was simply "Oh, *I* don't think we need this, let's get rid of it" Well, I don't build random things just because. I have ideas behind a project, and the efforts and the time I spent building require respect.
I got inspiration somewhere, so what's the problem? Moreover, so-called Easter Eggs are everywhere in games, does this mean than the builder/building team is throwing in things that aren't reasonable? What about the statues in Mass Effect 2 that are from Dragon Age?
And, Nimiane, the area was brand new. We're not talking about changes to an area that has been the same for years and years. Why changing it? You have mountain paths that could lead ANYWHERE. Why changing a peculiar place? What I am seeing lately is a total incapacity of the staff to simply talk, and this is just one more example of it.

@KittyEmpress: I am not demanding anything. I haven't played for a month and I don't know if I will ever come back, so please, don't put it as if I personally wanted something.

[*EM_Stormbringer]

if the builders are not part of the dev team and only staff has final say what happens with the module sounds like another reason why the player base feels disconnected with those that help run the server.

This is Every PW. The DM/Admin team controls what gets in, what get's altered and what get's removed. While they oft times depend on the help of volunteers, it's generally understood that everything supplied is donated to the server and can be altered at any time. It doesn't mean input is ignored but sometimes things get changed as the team deems necessary.

I understand the staff has to make decisions and do things and manage the house, but a healthy dose of transparency could really help to avoid a situation like this one ?

[*Darkrob]

if the builders are not part of the dev team and only staff has final say what happens with the module sounds like another reason why the player base feels disconnected with those that help run the server.

This is Every PW. The DM/Admin team controls what gets in, what get's altered and what get's removed. While they oft times depend on the help of volunteers, it's generally understood that everything supplied is donated to the server and can be altered at any time. It doesn't mean input is ignored but sometimes things get changed as the team deems necessary.

I understand the staff has to make decisions and do things and manage the house, but a healthy dose of transparency could really help to avoid a situation like this one ?

You're not incorrect, certainly, but sometimes things get discussed behind the scenes, an idea is formed, a decision made, and a builder makes the changes. We don't discuss every idea and decision with the player base. We make decisions as a team and have them implemented. If it's decided that input from others is necessary, then that's what happens, if not... then it doesn't.

While we are certainly far from perfect in our decisions (hence the reason many are revisited) we can't open every discussion and decision to public debate. We have to do what we feel is in the best interest of the server as the topics arise.

[*Neerepha]

we can't open every discussion and decision to public debate

Public debate? I'm still up to get PMs, you know. That wouldn't have hurt anyone.

[*Darkrob]

While I understand where you're coming from, that concept would require us to reach out to every contributor every time we wanted to make a change. That just isn't feasible. I know you guys take great pride in your work (this coming from someone who's literally useless with the toolset) and I understand you want to have a say in what happens to it but at the end of the day, it becomes a part of the server as a whole and is treated as such... a part of the server and the Admin/DM team is responsible for deciding the direction of each part of it. The team makes the call based on what they perceive as required for the server. It's not always ideal but it's how things run.

[*zethrenx99]

The change makes no sense, i'm not sure why that decision was ever made to begin with. There is no betterment to the server that it made other than to upset a health amount of people. The transition is poor and jarring at best, and doesn't add anything to the aesthetics it once had. Mountain path, Waterfall, even the first zone of Karasuthra are all plenty better options that would have had no negative impact, why it was decided that the one area that has hidden in its name as the common transition is beyond me.

Planescape, btw ,was inspired by other sources of various other lores and works of art and literature, mocking an artists inspiration is ignorant at best.

Its up to the admins to do with what they will with any donated contributions. I think it is in poor taste however, to take some ones hard work and then modify it (imo poorly) without so much as a heads up.

[*Clangeddin]

While I understand where you're coming from, that concept would require us to reach out to every contributor every time we wanted to make a change.

Oh please, just one PM would do.
Even if the staff can ultimately do what they want, it would be nice to send an informative note. Not even to have a discussion, but just to inform that a decision was taken for certain reasons and that a change was going to be made. It's simply called courtesy.
It takes 1 minute, literally.

[*Darkrob]

Well in the end it's called server management and server management means making the decisions that affect the server. We didn't contact people when we changed any of the Wards, any of the races, and any of the scripts and didn't hear any complaints then. It's a crapshoot on who's still around, who actually last modified or built the place and who, ultimately, would care. We decide it needs to be done and we do it.

Apologies if people don't like how it's done but any other way is inefficient and doesn't work. If it did... every PW would do it and few, if any, actually do.

[*Lucadia]

the changing of the areas was not for the betterment of the server though. Asteticly its just jaring to pop there, first.

and when the builder is still on the team it make sense to actually propose changes on the builder forums then just abritariy changing it to make a lot players displeased with management when it wasnt even to fit in with lore, just changed because one person "liked" it more versue the dozens that play.