Re: 7 Thoughts From Ceremorph

[*cryptc]

I'd have to say I'm really less interested in nerfing powerbuilds than I am in giving additional options to people who do things that aren't powerbuilding or twinking. One good example of this comes with my suggestion of Dedication Bonuses. For example, a melee character who only takes levels in classes with the "true melee" discriptor (for argument's sake, let's say Fighter, Barbarian, Weapon Master, Frezerker, Blackguard, Mage Slayer, Warden, Divine Champion, and certain melee-oriented racial PrCs) would, at maximum level, get a special bonus feat chosen from a selected list (preferably either new feats unique to this selection, feats a fighter would not normally be capable of qualifying for, or spell-like abilities. This in no way hurts characters who are grabbing a level of cleric here or one of bard there; instead it levels the playing field by rewarding those who stay true to a character concept.

This imho is the way to go, and the strategy we've always used on SCoD, trying to make the unpopular more playable.

[*rapsam2003]

Few tough choices with fighter because you have such an excess.

Few interesting choices either. ;)

[*Vandole]

Few tough choices with fighter because you have such an excess.

Few interesting choices either. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

[*b00seven]

3. More UMD locking.

This is a good idea. More alignment associated gear with appropriate effects would be nice. You can also juice a few items a little more and keep them locked into classes, especially classes that don't get much love (like holy avengers and paladins for example)

4. Gish-busting.

Most servers use the 3 of each class by lvl 20 rule here. It could be ez to script something which does a check on portal entrance and block it.

Other option here is to move Dip feats around (move HIPS up to a higher level on shadow dancer for example).

I wouldn't worry too much about this, however. End content in this server is strong. You need either powerbuild AC or an escape like HIPS to play any of it. The only real way to really discourage powerbuilds is to make them redundant by making content weaker (not sure we want to do this either). If you set the bar high, people reach for it... its kinda that simple.




5. Dedication bonuses.

This might be something to consider. Maybe bonus to sticking to one class, or a bonus to sticking to an achetype? Such as if you stick to all fighter, rogue, arcane or divine caster classes (all low BAB caster classes for wizards maybe?).

Not sure if this is really best use of resources though. I'd rather see dev's keep focus on the custom races and race PRC's than this.


6. Diversification bonuses.

Don't see the point

7. No, your God of Home and Hearth does not support the Travel domain.

I don't know if this can be enforced mechanically? Otherwise DM's need to start chasing ppl, and that's just a pain. Also, we have a rule where you don't have to play your character sheet.

[*poststructuralism]

I believe that the numbers on the sheet, the levels and the feats and spells, those things only account for maybe 30% of your character's power in our game. Your social status and who you know is maybe 30% and your competence as a player 40%. Unless you define "success" purely as being able to grind the endgame areas. Are you in a faction/sect/group? What rank? How many people can you mobilize when you need help or something done? Does your character own property? There are so many kinds of power.

I played a very poorly optimized half-fiend wizard for a long time here. I was never able to solo Carceri even on clueless and I never gave a crap. I could do it with a small team and that was plenty good enough for me. I did fine in CvC, built myself a tower in the lower ward, had a good old time.

Ask yourself if you are missing out on non-character-sheet power!

[*Tomekk]

Just remember that not everyone finds fun in the same things, poststructuralism :P

Some people enjoy having a powerfully built character and slaying monsters. Others enjoy merely socializing. Some like to take their IG political career far too seriously, whilst others want to have the biggest house.

I for one despise any form of PvP in this game, since everyone cherishes their own character and doesn't want to them to lose; if I want to enjoy competition, I can do that in other games without ruining someone else's fun by being a dick to their character and hiding behind the 'it's my roleplaying' excuse.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Having a powerful character is a very compelling lure actually. Firstly it opens up options, a powerful character can be given deliberate weakness for narrative, but it's far more difficult to make a weak character to have a strength if you can't even pull it off. Secondly it's convenient from playability perspective. I mean it lets you level up and grind at the pace you desire, rather than be forced into arbitrary slow speed just because you can't handle it. Thirdly, if you can pull your weight in a group, you'll feel participant to the narrative rather than useless weight that's getting dragged around.

Now all that said, there's absolutely nothing wrong in playing unoptimized characters either, and I've quite enjoyed playing those kind of characters personally. Those tend to emphasize "acting smart, instead of tough" and leave room for "character growth". The suboptimal characters are more often forced to face the reality that they probably won't change the course of conflicts, at least not alone, as they are forced to work through allies.

Then again if you put these two paragraphs together and compare the ramifications... a strong character is just as able to act in the ways of a weak character, but mostly it's player mentality which is driving the character. The knowledge that even if you lose, there won't be ramifications, those who choose suboptimal characters deliberately generally act on basis that "bad things happen if I lose, I should probably try my best to avoid that". Sure nobody wants to lose, but people who put their own character in line, tend to have their characters act in a more fluid nature.

Still to put that in contrast... you can do that on a strong character just the same, but most of us have a psychological switch in the head that tells us our odds of "non-consequence" subliminally, and on those basis we also generally have our characters react also. That same barrier is harder to break when your character is waaaay tougher. Those who can get past that and have characters instead react to the IC circumstances with the assumption that everything has a high chance of going wrong, then you'll probably have a more rational character.


At least that's what I've found out when playing deliberately suboptimal characters and some deliberately tough characters. The philosophy with which you play changes entirely since on the former one, you start from the assumption that you're going to lose without preparations and base your strategies around that. While on the latter characters you often start from the basis of that you have a fighting chance even without any preparations.

[*rapsam2003]

Am recently coming to the realization that if I do not powerbuild, I cannot go to the highest level of zones, even with a group.

I would be ALLLLLLL for changes that would make it so I could be competitive/helpful as my current character without rolling him as a powerbuild.

Nerf-batting power builds = more character build roleplay wonkiness allowed outside of just sitting in bazaar . . . being wonky.

For example:

I did everything in my power to break 60 ac with a dwarf fighter.

+5 full plate
+5 deflection
+5 natural
+4 dodge (+6 vs piercing)
+5 heavy shield
+combat expertise
+luck of heroes
+tumble


Nerf bat something, somehow, somewhere. When 50 AC is "meh" on a server where taking a little ecl hit tantamounts to not even needing gear to go toe to toe with a fully geared one . . .

Dunno if any of this is translating well enough, so I will just say:

Yes. Change would be nice.

Right? A lot of us who specifically don't powerbuild, we're at disadvantage.

7th: Easily regulated by DMs' and players' both prudent judgement, no need to script anything on it

One thing to point out is that Players won't regulate themselves. If they did, powerbuilds wouldn't be so prevalent.

Actually what I meant to say was: "The player will suggest and the master can contest". It should always be like this.

[*Strawberry Jam]

Theory time, armor class

10 base
8 plate
4 tower shield
6 improved expertise
1 luck of heroes
1 dodge feat
4 epic heavy armor optimization
1 dex
1 armor skin
5 armor
5 deflection
5 natural
5 dodge
5 shield
1 haste
1 or 3 tumble
1 small size

That's 64-66 for a mundane fighter ecl 0, 63 if you're medium sized and no dip for tumble classes.

[*rapsam2003]

Theory time, armor class

10 base
8 plate
4 tower shield
6 improved expertise
1 luck of heroes
1 dodge feat
4 epic heavy armor optimization
1 dex
1 armor skin
5 armor
5 deflection
5 natural
5 dodge
5 shield
1 haste
1 or 3 tumble
1 small size

That's 64-66 for a mundane fighter ecl 0, 63 if you're medium sized and no dip for tumble classes.

I thought Dwarves were considered medium size, 'cause "hefty". Of course, Armor feats make a huge difference.

Even so, a Cleric could have all that AND buffs, and EDM and maybe even dip for Shadowdancer & grab HiPS.

Minmaxers gonna minmax like haters gonna hate, and I wish we would talk more about RP and less about mechanics and numbers.

So do that. No one's stopping RP here? I guess too bad for you there is more to the game and how it works than RP? *shrug*

Just noticed this...

And... really, dude? lol. It's a RP server. THE FOCUS is RP. Get over yourself.

I guess it's too bad for you that a RP server isn't focused on powerbuilds all d*** day.