pelhikano,Oct 11 2009 wrote:This is probably a good time to bring this up (and it's not meant to be directed at anyone in particular): the "Stormwind Fallacy" is named after someone who described in detail why "the idea that building your character to be mechanically optimal means you're roleplaying poorly, or that building your character to be mechanically suboptimal means you're roleplaying well" does not make sense.
[Argument deleted]
This is an interesting argument.
Here is why it is wrong, in my opinion.
The "build optimization" takes a goal build in mind and RPs towards it. This is not a character growing organically out of RP experience. It is doing things IC while having in one's mind, "I am going to take feat X at level 21," even while the character is level 3.
Deri has never summoned her familiar. Why? She doesn't have one IC. She may have it on her "character sheet", but she has never gone through the process of finding and binding one IC.
Abby wrote:
wrote:I like the general opinions here. Ive been on servers where people were hostile in opposing the idea that someone ought to RP whats on their sheet. Ive always believed that you can take what you want, but you ought to RP what you take.
My personal feeling is that this is the converse of what is true. You ought to take what you RP. And if you have not RPed it, you shouldn't take it. This includes levels, by the way. Why should crawling through the sewers killing goblins make your connection closer to your god, for instance?
Recently, I had some question in my mind as to how to level Deri. The question was not, "What feat will allow Deri to be most powerful at level x?" The question was, "Who
is Deri? Is she a scholar? Is she a budding necromancer? Is she actually a burgeoning swordswoman?" (In truth, exactly half of her IC training has been casting-related, and half has been swordplay.) Who is the chracter that I am roleplaying? Not...what was I planning on her becoming when I was devising her "build", but who is the character her experiences have caused her to grow into?
wrote:These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's gameplay. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Roleplaying deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else...
Claiming that an optimizer cannot roleplay (or is participating in a playstyle that isn't supportive of roleplaying) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
This is the entire crux of the author's argument, and what it says is this, "If I am staying in character, I am RPing my character. The build is divorced from RP because they are two 'different aspects of...gameplay'." In effect, "There is no need to RP my character sheet" since they are
two different aspects of the game.
If you accept that RP and your character sheet are unrelated to one another, then the author is right, it
is a fallacy. I believe, however, that the two are
not unrelated, and that this is really no more than a thinly-veiled justification for powergaming, or, if you find that word distasteful,
optimization.
wrote:They go hand-in-hand in this sort of game. Deal with it. And in the name of all that is good and holy, stop committing the Stormwind Fallacy in the meantime.
It is only a fallacy if it is false. Much as I hate to disagree with you, pel, this is an argument that offers exactly one "proof" and that proof is false. Your RP is not divorced from your character sheet, and this argument is spurious.
Moreover, I see no real need for it to go hand in hand. Again, this is my opinion, but if you want to engage in powergaming, there are more than enough servers for that. If you want to play on an RP server, I feel like your character ought to
grow from that RP.
This is one player's opinion.
*********************
On a related note, the devs have said that they do not plan on nerfing any classes, spells, or abilities. I approve of this. There are a lot of reasons that I feel this way, but the main one is this: it doesn't really matter.
What I personally would like to see nerfed is grind XP and drops. There is such a gap between the grinders and the RPers in that respect that it is remarkable. And while I am sure that there are good and proper IC reasons why some people spend an hour or two daily soloing the ice plane or the Abyss, I have to cynically wonder why your RP depends so much upon your spending time with no other characters.
I would say that your RP does
not depend on it. Your build does. In that case, using that as RP justification for grinding is akin to saying, "My RP depends upon me
not RPing," or alternately, "I do not RP for RP reasons." This can be shortened to, "Not p; therefore p." This
is a fallacy, and not merely a matter of opinion.
--Aide