Where'd All The Good People Go?

[*Hydra]

I've done quite a few good characters in my days, we even had a small "good people club" a year back. But yes I guess that the setting doesn't help much. In Sigil all morale seems sometimes very relative and are easily discussed openly, so sticking to your "good principles" makes you soon look like a close minded bigot and removes a lot of possibilities that the setting seems to offer, unless you are happy living in your own bubble you'll soon be forced to make compromises and become a little more pragmatic and depending on your interpretation of pragmatism shift towards neutral or evil alignments.

For my characters, Kala has always been in the middle ground between goodness and neutrality I guess. She started lawful good, but he goodness eroded as she had to stand seeing the devils and undeads she hated walking the streets all day without beign able to do anything because of the law. It didn't helped when she witnessed how bad and abusive some hardheads and mercykillers could be and quickly gave up any trust in Sigil's authorities, then she met a lot of people with different views and slowly adapted to her new environment to become more pragmatic.

It also dosen't help as we do not see a lot of the celestial influence in Sigil, they do not seem very interested in the place overall compared to the fiends. I could mention quite a lot fiendish characters or NPCs that actually had some influence but barely any celestial.

[*Archangel]

I wouldn't have thought good would have much of a problem compared to evil or neutral and instead I would have thought neutral would be the most difficult (though perhaps the most rewarding) to play.

It may be that I am misinterpreting the alignments, but surely they only have to tend towards their alignment. As long as the character is generally virtuous they can have negative personality traits. I also wouldn't have thought you have to be immediately trusting? Just because you're good doesn't mean you need to be gullible, surely you can roll to try and determine if they're trying to trick/use you? (shame there's no sense motive)

In the case of Vrakroth, he's lawful good (bronze dragon alignment) so he should tend towards that. He is however a dragon and so will be greedy and arrogant, so it might be that when adventuring with others there may be a discrepancy between what he and the rest of the party thinks is his fair share. I would think that if this is resolved via negotiation then there is no trend towards evil and he is still conducting himself in a lawful manner.

The same would work for displaying the arrogance, if someone doesn't show the proper respect for him (silly fey calling him runty :P) then it is not evil of him to not be too willing to help (or maybe apply a courtesy tax ;))

Those are my thoughts at least, its interesting to see what others think.

*pokes Tomekk* he's still low level if you want someone for your monk to join

It's more apt to say people tend not to stray from their alignment rather than tending toward it. A LG person would rarely do things that are considered 'not-good' and when they do things that are evil (very rare) they should have a shift imposed. Do it too often and you become neutral, which can have a serious affect on certain classes. They aren't loose guidelines, though they can be violated. People shift in alignment all the time.

Also don't confuse personality with alignment. The Book of Exalted deeds has a great line that goes something like Good is not always nice, friendly, naieve, rigid, etc, etc. You can be LG and be arrogant. Just like you can be CE and be sugary sweet.

[*Tomekk]

*pokes Tomekk* he's still low level if you want someone for your monk to join

Someone noticed my LFG signature? :o Just give me a poke whenever I'm on, or send me a PM with some times, and I'll gladly party up.

Also, I'm making a Half Silver-Dragon paladin. Whattup?

[*ManyFaced]

The server isn't really set up to support good characters. Evil characters get free reign and are mostly free of consequences, there's really no way to stop or impede them (or even curb their abuse within their own faction). It's made worse by the seeming expectation that many factions (Harmonium and MKs come to mind) are mostly staffed by sadists and corrupt cops; but neither would progress in their factions in a proper setting.

That's the RP side I've seen at least. But for actually leveling, it's to the point where I can't recommend any character be good. For whatever reason almost all key grinding areas are loaded up on "Smite Good" which is more or less a death sentence. In the abyss, carceri, and even Clangor (to name a few) a good character will get swarmed by two or three smite-good enemies and die within two or three rounds. It's an ability that negates any degree of planning or buffing in short order, there's no way anyone can be expected to gear against that spike in AB and damage.


TBH it's bad enough that I'm tempted to swap my good characters to neutral so they stop getting wrecked. Evil only has to worry about that in a single area, and it's an area that no sane person would try to level in.

So from both an RP and design perceptive, good is at a massive disadvantage and even the 'good' characters tend to have neutral on their sheets.

[*Selebius]

It is possible to play good. Is it hard? Yes sure. It can be- and if just because of the fact that an ebil toon can be good sometimes and sill be percieved as evil by most while a good toon being evil once will have troubles.

Why? Human nature. We react to bad stimuli differently.

Anyway.

That most players expect the MKs and Hardheads to be evil and corrupt is sadly true but it does not stop me from trying to change this perception by playing a different Hardhead or MK- and other players do so as well. The hardheads are seen as enforcers and people hate other people who tell them what to do (there are exceptions of course)

The MKs... well. They are burdened with being percieved as the BDSM faction so attract certain concepts/players of course. :P
But again- there not all are like this.

It is up to us as players to shape the image of a faction so if we want good and just hardheads/MKs we just have to play more like that.

Anyway- as to levelling I found Carceri to be the most unforgiving place for good toons, never had much troubles in the Abyss (being Lawful hurts more there IMO) and Clangor.... well. Not much reason to go there for most of my toons outside of pure RP reasons.

Mercuria.... I like it. My evil toons have no troubles fighting there- one of my favourite are to level them to be honest. Just fits well.

[*Danakir]

As someone who's done both Good and Lawful in all the grinding areas, I can say with utmost certainty that Lawful characters don't really suffer from their alignment choice mechanically. Neither Smite Evil nor Smite Infidel affects them in the Abyss. (Unless they're also Good, of course, in which case they're in for a bad time)

[*Selebius]

...it is not all about smiting ;). Some creatures deal a bit of more damage to good or lawful characters with their attacks. It adds up.

[*Tomekk]

I think being good though, is a reward in itself. Sure its harder, you'll probably get smitten a lot and evil people will trample at you... but when you see that other PCs, and to a degree players, are inspired or just better off due to a good character's struggles, its something that makes me smile. :)

And on another note, its just a bit disheartening to see that the majority of Mercykillers are sadistic evil PCs... perhaps a few Sons of Mercy higher ups should remind them that torture!=Justice. :P

[*Archangel]

I think being good though, is a reward in itself. Sure its harder, you'll probably get smitten a lot and evil people will trample at you... but when you see that other PCs, and to a degree players, are inspired or just better off due to a good character's struggles, its something that makes me smile. :)

And on another note, its just a bit disheartening to see that the majority of Mercykillers are sadistic evil PCs... perhaps a few Sons of Mercy higher ups should remind them that torture!=Justice. :P

As one of those evil/sadistic PCs, mine was specifically put in the role of 'non-lethal punishment and interrogation' but that doesn't mean she wantonly beats up on every prisoner in the cells. She follows orders, and only uses her particular skillset when it's called for. Remember, perception =/= reality. A LE PC is still lawful, and even if they are willing to do very bad things, it doesn't mean they do when it's uncalled for. They still stick to a regimented structure of order, in this case Kierisen does her job when she's in her MK role. Her skills are more commonly used outside the prison for recreational or professional purposes.

In specific relation to torture, if it wasn't part of the role of a Mercy Killer, then they wouldn't have torture chambers in the basement, and who better to put in that role than someone who isn't too shy to smack around a prisoner when it's deemed necessary by the higher ups.

[*Tomekk]

Lawful or not, that doesnt mean I have to like it. :P