Something I Hadn't Heard Before!

[*rapsam2003]

If you detect the distant wailing of staff at the suggestion of player conflict, its because there's a 95% chance that we're about to receive complaints. Its not that we actually hate player conflict. It would be really nice to be able to have player conflict. But I've only seen it "work out" once without massive drama.

Is it possible that part of that is because the PvP rules are restrictive in such a way as to make it entirely discourage PvP? And then when it actually happens, people get outraged that it even did. Why? Because the rules actively discourage it. If you could point to a rule that said, "Keep conflict as CvC (Character vs. Character)", rather than having to have screenshot proof every time, it'd probably make your jobs easier.

I mean, we're discussing one of the more gritty settings (Planescaple/Sigil), where dying on a dangerous plane or in a back alley in Sigil for running your mouth is a thing! But no one wants to embrace the danger or the possibility that angels who encounter demons around the planes WILL fight them! This isn't some safe space setting, where we all get to be Mary Sues and save the world from the big bad... But that's what it feels like...

Because no one wants to engage in any conflict. As Vehk said, conflict fuels RP and plots. Also, conflict doesn't have to involve combat. This is non-combative conflict, and it got a lot of people interested: Non-combat conflict. OOCly, I know this example stemmed out of a Demon PC who was bothering a Naiad PC. Now, guess what? Everyone loves Kasha the Naiad!

[*MimiFearthegn]

I'm not sure what you think is restrictive about "communicate with the other party." Communication is key to any sort of fun prolonged conflict RP. The exact details, timing, and whether you want to do it mechanically or RP is really up to you and the other party's tastes.

And if you want to rehabilitate the idea of conflict, then it really is a matter of conducting conflict in a respectful manner where you (general you) are willing to take what you dish out. Then people can have some happy associations with it instead of bad memories.

. . also, I'd love to have a rule as simple as "keep it IC," but sadly, clarification is always required, which is why you'll see servers with pages upon pages of detailed rules.

[*ewe]

Yea I think people are definitely not treated fairly on the Discord, but I've made my own thread on this issue previously. There's also a lot of hypocrisy where the mods will do the same things they would TO people for. It's becoming a less and less tolerant place to hang out as times goes on. Unless you're in the inner circle there's not a lot of point in hanging out there.

[*wmw12]

So, usually I make my comments and then leave a discussion alone because beating a dead horse is only really my thing when hubs and I are bickering ((*Coughs*))

However, I will clarify something. Again, I don't mind conflict rp, and if you want to do it right it requires a LOT of communication oocly. Mostly to ensure that no one is getting their feelings hurt. HOWEVER if you are going to start IC drama, which I mean we're all here to RP so IC drama is a given folks, you have got to be prepared for the IC consequences. Getting upset because your character got called on their crap is... well annoying, and not very adult of you. Getting upset because your character broke the law, and you don't want your happy little whatever to go to jail is annoying.

Now! If you want to actually have fun with conflict RP then, BEFORE you start some talk to the players you're going to start it with, tell them what you're willing and not willing to RP. Yes, it kills some of the surprise but for instance, IF you are going to rp that you attacked someone with a rusty pipe, you simply say "hey, Shmerdlap, I want my character to attack yours, I don't want to tell you why or how, I want that to be a surprise. here's how I'd like it to go" and give a loose description with ROOM FOR IMPROVISATION.

This is again, my two cents. Everyone has the ability to RP the way that they want to, but in all seriousness, please act like adults, or at least well mannered children.

And, if you're concerned about things like metagaming or whatever, have a DM sit in on your negotiations for your conflict rp.

I am just really tired, of Del being who she is, or whoever being who they are, and that all of a sudden gets turned into an ooc problem because player A did something stupid on their character and Player B's character reacted as the character would and now no one's playing with anyone and everyone's angry.

[*edmaster44]

Your dead horse :D , and i agree with what you say Del Dear!, It's like what we say in NYC, if you start beef, you better be packing dog. I always discuss these beefs OOCLY first, to ensure that -there- is no bad blood between us IC rivals! I remember that Beach Confrontation with Cornelia, Helena and your Squad, that was Fun and the IC tension is cool, i did ask if everything was cool. Cause again, past experiences has taught me sometimes people cannot separate the two.

[*wmw12]

I said I only do it when I'm bickering with the hubs!!!!!!!!

[*edmaster44]

and edited!

[*wmw12]

Your dead horse :D , and i agree with what you say Del Dear!, It's like what we say in NYC, if you start beef, you better be packing dog. I always discuss these beefs OOCLY first, to ensure that -there- is no bad blood between us IC rivals! I remember that Beach Confrontation with Cornelia, Helena and your Squad, that was Fun and the IC tension is cool, i did ask if everything was cool. Cause again, past experiences has taught me sometimes people cannot separate the two.

Agreed!

[*edmaster44]

Yeah, it gets annoying when people ..whined for ..well literally, poking fun at and making fun of a Dragon, then said person cried when the Dragon ate her :P , Been there DM side and PW Host, If you're gonna start IC beef guys, please, prepare for the Consequences ICly too -_-.

[*Artifice]

OOCly, I know this example stemmed out of a Demon PC who was bothering a Naiad PC. Now, guess what? Everyone loves Kasha the Naiad!

Well I would like to comment on this because I am involved in it. Me and Huelander, who plays Zephon, have RPed together for nearly two decades now.

I think we have a significant level of trust with each other when it comes to our roleplay and nearly every time we play together, our characters either have a strong bond or a strong opposition. Why? Because having strong opinions on something is more interesting than lacking them. I like to make interesting characters and, even if people seem to assume Kasha is ambivalent and cares little about things, it's actually quite the opposite.

I would like to suggest, though, that even though you worded it as a past tense, this isn't something that I feel is over. I doubt that Huelander thinks it's over either. As long as our characters exist, they will have strong opinions about each other. There was an... Exchange just yesterday, for example.

In fact, if I may be so bold, what surprised me most about the particular event that I think you are referring to is that there were so few ramifications for it. It started off rather well. However, I remember commenting to Huelander at the time that I could not believe that the Triad of Law, with their strong player presence, didn't seem to ever do anything with it, or use it as a leverage for any real sort of RP. I was given the impression that player conflict is something that is seen as bad on this server, and I haven't tried anything like that again because several people implied that they saw it in a negative light OOC.

I took my energy elsewhere and tried other things instead, if that makes sense, because I don't really want to do RP that makes other people uncomfortable.