Metagaming

[*Love_on_a_Wire]

I mean ... not roleplaying your character sheet is kind of like your own burden that you accept, especially if you take it t extreme lengths.

That's not stated in the rules, unless a proper staff member would like to claim otherwise.

The only conflicting rules are the following:
You do not need to roleplay your character sheet.
Spells and abilities that are not mechanically implemented can only be performed with all party's consent.

The obvious solution here, in my eyes, would be to remove Detect Undead. It contributes nothing. It never has.

[*Tomekk]

I mean ... not roleplaying your character sheet is kind of like your own burden that you accept, especially if you take it t extreme lengths.

You are allowed to substitute your classes and races for something else, within reason. Ie role-play your crafter wizard as an Artificer or your pale elf as Frost Elf.

[*Strawberry Jam]

I mean if you start taking damage when somebody tries to heal you then it's sort of incumbent upon you to explain that, right?

[*Jelkia]

I think this kind of thing needs to be stated IC. For example:

PC1 goes invisible.
PC2 says, "I can still see you. I have natural truesight. Is there a reason you attempted to go invisible?"
PC1 reacts.

If you don't state, I'm using truesight, then 1) missed RP opportunity ("oh, you have truesight? interesting...") AND 2) how would other players know? Similar IC RP would need to be done with other spells that detect things.

Ah dunno ah'm ICly obligated ta tell other folks ah can still see em if they take ta bein invisible around me. Just like invisible folks aint necessiarly obligated ta alert other folks round em if those folks aint got magic an caint see em.

I mean ... not roleplaying your character sheet is kind of like your own burden that you accept, especially if you take it t extreme lengths.

Ah surely do agree with that. Yer welcome ta run off yer RP an nah yer sheet.. but tha's on yerself what comes of et. Maybe jot down ah little somethin in yer game bio ta clarify fer folks whats different?

[*Tomekk]

I mean if you start taking damage when somebody tries to heal you then it's sort of incumbent upon you to explain that, right?

That's where the 'within reason' comes into play... you can't exactly expect people to believe you're an Elminster level mage when you're a level 2 sorceror, now can you?

(Wish that were obvious )

[*Midnight]

I played a vampire here for a long time, since before the special races as they are came about. I accepted the fact that people may discover my character is undead as one of the challenges of playing that character. Like not being able to go places uninvited or not being able to grind in places with a sun like Mercuria or Brux.

I do not think detect undead should be removed, it's a legitimate pnp spell that functions in nwn as it does in pnp. I think maybe some kind of compromise can be reached though, perhaps some kind of counter measure. This from the spell compendium springs to mind.

As for people who select undead races to represent other things; you know this may happen, perhaps invent some IC reason why you show up incorrectly as undead, maybe that golem you are using a vampire or death knight to represent was made with a lot of negative energy and the effects linger, maybe that mortal wizard you are using a lich temple to make a little less squishy owes his toughness to some dark necromancy spell that triggers detect undead. We are quite fortune that SCoD offers us a lot of freedom. Is it so much to ask that we go a little way to compromise with its mechanics and some of the other people who play here?

[*Strawberry Jam]

I mean ... not roleplaying your character sheet is kind of like your own burden that you accept, especially if you take it t extreme lengths.

Ah surely do agree with that. Yer welcome ta run off yer RP an nah yer sheet.. but tha's on yerself what comes of et. Maybe jot down ah little somethin in yer game bio ta clarify fer folks whats different?

Basically that's my stance too.

We are quite fortune that SCoD offers us a lot of freedom. Is it so much to ask that we go a little way to compromise with its mechanics and some of the other people who play here?

I agree wholeheartedly, that it's even allowed is a huge deal in the amount of freedom you're allowed. =)

[*Neethanial]

Heh. It pretty much comes down to "Don't be an ass". If you can't figure out how NOT to be an ass (oocly, of course), go back to single player games cuz we don't want you here.

Don't go out of your way to expose someone in an alternate form (it happens, a lot, even just the other day). Rule of thumb - several people treat trueseeing as "requires a bit of focus on a character to notice what they really are". True, that's not how the spell actually functions, but it provides people the chance to enjoy their rping.

Don't give away that someone is undead if your character has absolutely no reason to care or know in the first place. I can't say I've experienced this one too much, but I can certainly see how it happens.

Don't shout out about the invisible person who you cannot realistically know is there (even if you can still see them on the screen because the game forces you to transition and back to actually be unseen). Also, if you want to run around invis, slip into another zone, invis, return. Problem solved. (I swear, Cookie knows all the inviso-sneaks that frequent the bazaar)

If you're that bored and miserable that you have to ruin other player's time here just for the shit of it, go somewhere else. Consistent metagaming in these fashions to specific people could be considered OOC harassment.

[*Love_on_a_Wire]

I always had persistent detect undead up with Ea'ral and OH MY GOD you have no idea how many vampires used to get annoyed at me. Hehehehe.... still it made me chuckle.

Do want to say that I dislike this a whole lot.

Detect Undead effectively lets you peek at someone's character sheet and serves no purpose but to reduce chances for interesting roleplay or character development. It's a roleplay-only spell that people can hold over someone without consent, and sending a PM that amounts to "Uh, hey?" doesn't stop anything if the person casting it shouts "HAHA HEY LOOK AT THIS UNDEAD" first, or communicates the results without your knowledge OOC.

On a server that prides itself on allowing people to roleplay something other than their character sheet, it's tantamount to metagaming in itself. So. I'm not a fan and would love to see it removed at some point. Introducing the mountain of countermeasures would be neat too, but it wouldn't change the "No? I'm not undead IC. I'm only undead OOC. Pike off." argument that is legal to make by server rules.

Abigail Weir is an excellent example of a character whose concept is weakened by detect undead. Abigail's being a very obvious, blatant vampire is an aspect of her character that is difficult to convey when every undead is immediately obvious. DM Miraie gave up on making it a plot point entirely because of dorks who maintain persistent Detect Undead for no reason other than to say, "Hehe. :^)".

[*Mr_Otyugh]

To be fair, divination spells are some of the worst spell designs out there for a roleplaying environment. No effort to get near undeniable answers, because magic. Lazy and boring for all things remotely secretive with very little reason not to use them.