Hiya Mimi!
Just thought I'd let you know I'm working on a Random-Gem Project for BGTSCC, accumulating the data for their scripters to incorporate into a new 2da which will generate some ~30 new gem types and 3 gem qualities (uncut, cut & set) into server loot scripts. If this is something Sigil would like to adapt and incorporate into a future crafting system (which may also include the addition of a Jewellers skill to upgrade gem qualities), I'd be happy to forward the raw data when it is complete. Someone else will have to script/modify values as to how it will intermingle with current gemstone drops/values and Sigil's loot generation scripts because programming is simply not my thing :lol:
~Tsiddi
New Crafting/enchanting System
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*MimiFearthegn
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
That sounds cool, Tsidkenu. Let me know how it goes. :)
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*Tsidkenu
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
I've finished collating the data for my Random Gem Project, leaving only the 2da creation which someone in the BGTSCC Dev team is going to work on at some point. The reason it was proposed this way is to save module resources by not having these immense swathes of text stored internally in the module, but simply being able to be created into the module when the loot script calls for a gemstone.
I'm happy for Sigil's devs to take my work and implement it however you like, if even at all, as I have no scripting experience or knowledge of how to create a 2da, or implement that 2da into the server's loot and/or crafting scripts.
Things for consideration:
1. Adjusting descriptions. I mostly sourced descriptions from the Forgotten Realms wiki (gem entries) and their magical/enchantment properties reflect that. Descriptions would thus need to be adjusted to suit the Planescape setting, something I could do but I am not as cluey with the setting and its gems/descriptions as I am with FR.
2. Adjusting prices. The prices listed are guided towards the somewhat bloated BGTSCC gold economy and should be adjusted for Sigil's far more conservative one, particularly gems in the epic tier.
3. TGAs. I'm not sure where BG got these from but a search through Sigil's custom TGA directory ( it_[gem-name]_0, _1, _2 ) might show that these are sitting there too, neglected and unutilised. There are still quite a few unused tga files (it_gem_516 through _619) even with my gem expansion project, which would allow some more unique 'planar' gems, coins and oddities to be added if required.
4. Jewellery Craft skill. There is the possibility for this new skill to be added (either to an existing/new gem merchant NPC or as a trade skill selectable by players) to be utilised to improve gem grades and provide a gold sink for any crafting system that might utilise them.
5. Common Gems & Crafting. Most crafting systems tier towards high-end gems and values, whereas this system allows even common gems to take centre place in making the most powerful magic items.
6. ResRefs. I have no idea how that side of scripting works, or how to assign a resref to a 2da-generated item so it can be called upon by crafting scripts, or how DMs might create stashes of gems as treasure for their events if gem blueprints do not exist in the DM Creator.
7. OC Gemstones. Some gems, like rogue stones and king's tears, are simply not represented in my project. Decisions will have to be made as to the place/use of OC gemstones, especially given that players will have huge collections of these already.
8. Enjoy! Its been fun research and I now know so much more about gems and jewels!
I'm happy for Sigil's devs to take my work and implement it however you like, if even at all, as I have no scripting experience or knowledge of how to create a 2da, or implement that 2da into the server's loot and/or crafting scripts.
Things for consideration:
1. Adjusting descriptions. I mostly sourced descriptions from the Forgotten Realms wiki (gem entries) and their magical/enchantment properties reflect that. Descriptions would thus need to be adjusted to suit the Planescape setting, something I could do but I am not as cluey with the setting and its gems/descriptions as I am with FR.
2. Adjusting prices. The prices listed are guided towards the somewhat bloated BGTSCC gold economy and should be adjusted for Sigil's far more conservative one, particularly gems in the epic tier.
3. TGAs. I'm not sure where BG got these from but a search through Sigil's custom TGA directory ( it_[gem-name]_0, _1, _2 ) might show that these are sitting there too, neglected and unutilised. There are still quite a few unused tga files (it_gem_516 through _619) even with my gem expansion project, which would allow some more unique 'planar' gems, coins and oddities to be added if required.
4. Jewellery Craft skill. There is the possibility for this new skill to be added (either to an existing/new gem merchant NPC or as a trade skill selectable by players) to be utilised to improve gem grades and provide a gold sink for any crafting system that might utilise them.
5. Common Gems & Crafting. Most crafting systems tier towards high-end gems and values, whereas this system allows even common gems to take centre place in making the most powerful magic items.
6. ResRefs. I have no idea how that side of scripting works, or how to assign a resref to a 2da-generated item so it can be called upon by crafting scripts, or how DMs might create stashes of gems as treasure for their events if gem blueprints do not exist in the DM Creator.
7. OC Gemstones. Some gems, like rogue stones and king's tears, are simply not represented in my project. Decisions will have to be made as to the place/use of OC gemstones, especially given that players will have huge collections of these already.
8. Enjoy! Its been fun research and I now know so much more about gems and jewels!
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*GreeniesTree
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
I agree that enchanting with magic alone should reach the highest potential but the wearer should only receive the benefits appropriate to their class.
Ex1: A pair of boots enchanted with 20 hide, a level 30 wizard wears these boots but only receives 10 to their hide skill where a level 30 rouge would receive the full 20 bonus.
Ex2: +6 Monk boots, a level 30 monk would receive the full +6 dodge AC while a level 30 Cleric would only receive +5
There also needs to be a level restriction on class specific skills and feats, like in Ex1, say the wizard multi-classes as 29 wizard and 1 shadow dancer then they would receive +11 hide from the +20 hide boots, 10 from wizard and an extra 1 from having 1 level in a rouge based class, with only 1 level in a rouge based class you are still an amateur and will not have the experience to gain the full +20 to the hide skill regardless its a magical enchantment or not (just because something is magical it does not improve your ability to use said item, you may say this linked to proficiency but being proficient in something does not make you an expert or master), the wizard may be terribly clumsy and knows nothing about hiding well, The level 29 wizard 1 shadow dancer receiving the full +20 from the boots defeats the point in having different classes in the first place. A level 29 wizard 1 shadow dancer should not be able to achieve the same level of skill in hiding as a level 30 rouge no matter how potent their spell casting is or how many hundreds of years they have been a level 1 shadow dancer for (yes you can max your skill tree out the same but that is why there should be different potential on the items for different classes). A level 29 wizard 1 shadow dancer then will choose to put only 10 hide on their boots and choose different enchantments as appropriate.
((not appropriate to crafting so skip if crafting is all you want to read)) Same for feats like divine might, if you only have 2 levels of cleric or class that gives you access even if you have mod 10 charisma you should only receive 2 divine damage so one would have to have at least 10 levels of cleric or class that gives access to divine might to receive the full potential of your mod 10 charisma.
Also their needs to be a format for skill increasing and reduction synergies. For instance casting detect magic would reduce the wizards hide skill because they would stand out like a sore thumb with 29 caster levels (this spell does not exist I know, but should along with detect evil and hide alignment/ emulate alignment / disguise as a free feat for rouges and general for other classes and the dc is dependent on bluff or similar / tongues etc. this would improve RP imo).
Peace
Ex1: A pair of boots enchanted with 20 hide, a level 30 wizard wears these boots but only receives 10 to their hide skill where a level 30 rouge would receive the full 20 bonus.
Ex2: +6 Monk boots, a level 30 monk would receive the full +6 dodge AC while a level 30 Cleric would only receive +5
There also needs to be a level restriction on class specific skills and feats, like in Ex1, say the wizard multi-classes as 29 wizard and 1 shadow dancer then they would receive +11 hide from the +20 hide boots, 10 from wizard and an extra 1 from having 1 level in a rouge based class, with only 1 level in a rouge based class you are still an amateur and will not have the experience to gain the full +20 to the hide skill regardless its a magical enchantment or not (just because something is magical it does not improve your ability to use said item, you may say this linked to proficiency but being proficient in something does not make you an expert or master), the wizard may be terribly clumsy and knows nothing about hiding well, The level 29 wizard 1 shadow dancer receiving the full +20 from the boots defeats the point in having different classes in the first place. A level 29 wizard 1 shadow dancer should not be able to achieve the same level of skill in hiding as a level 30 rouge no matter how potent their spell casting is or how many hundreds of years they have been a level 1 shadow dancer for (yes you can max your skill tree out the same but that is why there should be different potential on the items for different classes). A level 29 wizard 1 shadow dancer then will choose to put only 10 hide on their boots and choose different enchantments as appropriate.
((not appropriate to crafting so skip if crafting is all you want to read)) Same for feats like divine might, if you only have 2 levels of cleric or class that gives you access even if you have mod 10 charisma you should only receive 2 divine damage so one would have to have at least 10 levels of cleric or class that gives access to divine might to receive the full potential of your mod 10 charisma.
Also their needs to be a format for skill increasing and reduction synergies. For instance casting detect magic would reduce the wizards hide skill because they would stand out like a sore thumb with 29 caster levels (this spell does not exist I know, but should along with detect evil and hide alignment/ emulate alignment / disguise as a free feat for rouges and general for other classes and the dc is dependent on bluff or similar / tongues etc. this would improve RP imo).
Peace
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*Mr_Otyugh
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
We already have +10 hide/MS armor (which can also be enchanted to shields) bonus, add +10 or +20 to that and people will have just absolutely silly high hide and MS, they can already get it to 80+ as is, with +20 from boots that'd bump it to relatively easy 95, and I know there has also come some more items that give greater bonus than the ones I used few years back. :P so make it a round 100-ish.
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*GreeniesTree
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
20 was just a reference number not an actual suggested value perhaps I should have used 10 and 5 instead :)
Peace
Peace
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*Mick64
- Posts: 490
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
It also crushes diversity because everyone just takes whatever items are made for their class with no options to branch out because if they do they get hit by the nerf hammer.
If a class isn't good enough pure, then that class needs to be tweeked itself to be useful pure (Or almost pure) , not rely on a magic item crutch. (Except a few rare classes like Fighter who are pretty much meant to be gateways to PRCs)
If a class isn't good enough pure, then that class needs to be tweeked itself to be useful pure (Or almost pure) , not rely on a magic item crutch. (Except a few rare classes like Fighter who are pretty much meant to be gateways to PRCs)
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*GreeniesTree
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Well class gating is better than everyone wearing the same items like +5 monk boots etc ((no one branches out I see everyone using the same items all the time, the best ones)).... the same as every one taking 2 levels of cleric for EDM, that makes less sense. UMD is all good and well for wands/consumables but using a holy sword as an evil pc just because your UMD is through the roof makes less sense again. Same goes for a Lawful good pc, they would never spend hours of their time training to use magical devices so they can make use of the evil axe they found they would simply destroy it. And it would be a fun system because you would actually see more than just one rouge or just one barbarian on the server in place of the many secret clerics and obvious wizards/sorcs.
Peace
Peace