Good Aligned Characters

[*edmaster44]

Sex and Sexuality is natural, i don't any LGBT SJW Shovelshit in my dnd, As a Bisexual man myself i hate that moment and what they've become, but THAT's a WHOLE other argument i don't want to discuss here, this is about GOOD Characters!

[*Mick64]

Considering that all D&D worlds are buit with explicitly polytheistic religions with a very Greco-Roman mindset where technically all gods are supposed to be show at least modicum of respect even if you don't worship them as personal patrons or you fight their worshippers...

... basing anything about Abrahamic values it's extremely hard in this continuity.

Greeks didn't gladly worship Ares or paid more than a frightened respect to him, as he was considered more a necessary and dangerous force of nature than a deity you'd really call for help on a regular basis, yet he still was a recognised god to them.

It's hard to compare D&D religion to any existing religion, because it has both elements from polytheistic real-world faiths and monotheistic ones. Greeks did not look to their gods as a source of moral guidance, and to greek gods mortals didn't matter. They where just something out there. To the greeks, catching the attention of a god was in the vast majority of cases a bad thing that ended in tragedy for the mortal. A few gods of D&D (I'll use FR gods since they are best known) do resemble greek gods in attitude and in ways their followers interact with them. Those would be gods like Talos, Umbrelee and Besheba.

The majority of gods, however, act much more like abrahamic, monotheistic gods. Weather good or evil they demand that their followers live their lives according to some moral standards, actively reward/support/protect mortals that share and spread their ideals. The more good-aligned ones will care about the well-being of mortals, while the evil-aligned ones will use them as tools. Both ways, it shows a very direct relation with mortals which greek gods certainly did not have, being more like forces of nature in the eyes of the ancient greek people.

[*Embersworn]

This wasn't really the case with Ancient religions.

They had gods who were considered beneficial and people usually wanted their attention, like Zeus or Athena who were considered state patrons and demanded some uptight standards from a good citizen, contrasted with deities who were given respect out of fear like Ares or Hecate.

With beneficial gods their worship was pretty much demanded and organised by the state. Every poleis had their patron deity with a publicly founded nice fat temple... In 90% cases it was almost always Zeus, Athena or Demeter, so not a lot of variety.

Which is pretty much a standard take on polytheism in fantasy.

[*Strawberry Jam]

Who said fey are malicious? They're capricious.

The source is open a book with fey or look up the wotc articles on fey. One of the articles out right says even if fey war they do not give two hoots if a mortal dies because of it. The fey of Birthright notably swap out human children with their own kind. The fey of Ravenloft are noted to transfer people's souls into immortal bodies so they can mindlessly work for them forever and ever and ever and ever.

Also only fools go to a fey court to ask for help, you'd have better chances begging an arch devil at least then you know what you're getting into. So much for all that caring and selfless preachy stuff.

You don't even need to look far and dryads are known to attack humanoids that even get close.

So by human society standards yeah they're evil. In some settings they're considered evil regardless of their mechanical alignment.

The reason it contradicts strict concepts of alignment is simply cos it wasn't designed for players to actually play the monsters lol

[*Mick64]

Most of Zeus's interactions with mortals where "Come down from Olympus. Find a pretty mortal. Rape her (Usually while in the shape of an animal)." I wouldn't exactly call that being heavily invested in mortal's morality.

Demeters, who refuses to make plants grow for half the year, possibly starving countless people?

Athena is possibly the only exception in that she's a goddess who helped out mortals who followed a certain lifestyle she encouraged (In her case, a heroic life).

The gods certainly demanded sacrifices, or very specific rituals, but I've never read about greek gods making moral demands.

[*Sinlinara]

There's also the aspect of faerie courts and politics and ancient laws and other really neat-o things.

In comparison, playing around with mortals is just a distraction for when we get bored.

[*Hydra]

Neither is it realistic to hold a game world to extreme Christian values right out of the crusades. I think if it comes to a point where you are offending ppl OOC with rp and an excuse "it's just a game" you should calm down and ask yourself exactly what kind of game you're playing with them. A game isn't a platform to push extreme real world political or religious views which is why most MMOs have it banned in their license agreement.

I don't think people should be offended and calling an outrage because someone plays something a bit provocative and unsettling compared to modern moral values, it's a work of fiction and everyone has all the right to play characters that are bigoted or promoting hate speech as it fits within the context of that fiction and I agree with Tahiou on that basis. Those characters provide a moral challenge and dilemmas instead of having a clean world where everyone is nice and tolerant, which ends up being extremely boring. Simply don't automatically assimilate people's viewpoints to their characters and vice versa.

[*Mick64]

The source is open a book with fey or look up the wotc articles on fey.

You don't even need to look far and dryads are known to attack humanoids that even get close.

Let's open a book on dryads then. Say, the Monster Manual...

Shy, intelligent, and resolute, dryads are as elusive as they are alluring—they avoid physical combat and are rarely seen unless they wish to be. If threatened, or in need of an ally, a dryad uses charm person or suggestion, attempting to gain control of the attacker(s) who could help the most against the rest. Any attack on her tree, however, provokes the dryad into a frenzied defense.

I'm not seeing the dangerous creature who wants to murder-kill all mortals on sight here.

The fey of Birthright notably swap out human children with their own kind. The fey of Ravenloft are noted to transfer people's souls into immortal bodies so they can mindlessly work for them forever and ever and ever and ever.

I don't know anything about Birthright, but pretty much every creature in Ravenloft is Evil.

Titania's creed is that of mercy and goodness, and it is virtually impossible to drive her to anger unless the being giving offense is direly evil.

From Monster Mythology. Titania is the head of the Seelie Court.

[*Embersworn]

Most of Zeus's interactions with mortals where "Come down from Olympus. Find a pretty mortal. Rape her (Usually while in the shape of an animal)." I wouldn't exactly call that being heavily invested in mortal's morality.

Demeters, who refuses to make plants grow for half the year, possibly starving countless people?

Athena is possibly the only exception in that she's a goddess who helped out mortals who followed a certain lifestyle she encouraged (In her case, a heroic life).

The gods certainly demanded sacrifices, or very specific rituals, but I've never read about greek gods making moral demands.

You are talking mythology, but the mythology was written as a literature and really, really far on the "tabloid" side of things.


Not as a religious scripture.


Homer and Hesiod weren't writing for anything but amusement, meanwhile actual religious practices and attitudes in everyday life were completely unlike you're expecting.

Yes, Greeks were considering their deities as the givers of law and warrants of public order, especially with Zeus. Being hospitable, honorable, law-abiding was demanded by gods. Plagues or lost wars could be seen as a divine punishment if mortals were misbehaving.
This wasn't a cozy or conforming religion and gods were not merciful, but there were moral guidelines, though Ancient morality is heavily skewed towards the "Lawful" side and being a good citizen.


Try to read through Herodotus, Thucidydes or Xenophon and you'll see that the everyday practice and religious customs were different, same as was the general attitude towards their gods.

The mythology, especially filtered through the modern popculture, is unlike how Ancients perceived divinity or ethics.

[*Embersworn]

Original D&D, mostly thanks to Gygax historical interests, was actually made to channel some of the harsher medieval mentality.

Greenwood's FR on the other hand, was more laid back and idealistic in the modern term of this word.

Then you have Planescape setting with different and more philosophical take on things where Good vs Evil aren't even the most important.

But once Gygax left TSR, his ideas went discontinued in time. Probably only for the better, since they were often inflexible and dated, also not really workable in different game settings.