Terrible Woes Of Playing A Fighter On Sigil

[*Whitefly]

Meleers pour out lots of damage and also soak up lots of damage, and they do it all day long without getting tired.

Arcane casters buff meleers to increase damage and survivability, provide a summoned meleer of their own and have some effectively insta-death spells that run out faster than a tube of jaffa cakes left within 50 meters of me.

Divine casters do everything arcane casters do, except they're also better at meleeing than meleers and have better insta-death spells than arcane casters, and they can heal well over 30 times their own health pool each day. It's like turning up to a pillow fight with a personal gatling gun. Oh, and you also get a summon.

Warlocks are like the ultimate pacifist class, they do absolutely no damage whatsoever, but stun everthing forever.

Bards buff stuff, then they go melee. They buff stuff better than anyone else buffs stuff too. They're pretty spiffy.

Psions have about a billion million insta death spells with slightly worse DCs than everyone else, but it's OK because you can spam your insta death spells about 50 times a day. You are also master of the cool abilities that nobody understands and most people don't realise exist. Which is nice.

Ranged attackers like arcane archers mixed with eldritch master and extended tenser's transformation 10 times a day are your wussy version of melee attackers, who are capable of hitting everything, even druids with monk levels, and do some fairly respectable damage.


Did I miss anyone out? Oh yea.

ROGUES. Rogues are your HIPSy backstabbery never see them because they run away and HIPS again dudes who do slightly less damage than druids with monk levels, but still do some of the best damage of anyone. They're cool, but the only problem is that if anything looks at them, they have to stop attacking, which means their damage per round drops like a brick the moment an enemy turns up with awareness greater than that of the aforementioned dropped brick.


Okay I think that's everything.

[*Jelkia]

Ah think that's already been done over Tom. The idea is.. if ya have ANY possible access to spells in any way.. like buyin them er having someone around cast em on ya... even if ya still don't come close ta being as buffed up as ah caster would be.. then yer the same as ah caster.. but with all tha -benefits- of ah non caster.

If folks believe that.. they're not gonna accept that non casters aint superior. To them yer just complaining cause yer lazy an yer choosin to be inferior despite what it might cost in time, money, skill points, er effort...er.. even being able ta get ta ah caster er merchant fer whatcha need on tha fly like they can ta make that even close ta ah reality.

Ya aint gonna come up with an argument that's gonna change that outlook. To that mindset.. yer just being whiny an lazy no matter whatcha say. XD

[*Iggwilv]

Against my better judgment here goes....

I play mostly casters. The reason for this is just because they have so many more options. I've seen some really really effective melee builds out there. When I play a mage I am always happy to have one with me when I go somewhere difficult like Carceri or the grand abyss where there are huge mobs of bruising monsters with lots of HP and high saves. My strategy there is often to buff up the melee character I am with and support with crowd control spells and summons as best I can.

I am only talking from personal experience but I find melee fighters don't lack for effectiveness in high end areas. The damage they can dish out is better than anything I can do with even the most "boomstickish" of sorcs. I image without the buffs from a caster though they'd struggle in these places. On the other hand without a melee build to help them the caster will struggle too. This is not a bad thing in my opinion.

What stops me from playing straight up melee builds is not the lack of effectiveness but the lack of options as I think a few other people have already stated.

[*rapsam2003]

What stops me from playing straight up melee builds is not the lack of effectiveness but the lack of options as I think a few other people have already stated.

To add to this, I created a character that was a fighter, with the intention of dualclassing to warlock. Even at low levels (where, maybe I thought things would be a little more equal for all classes /shrug), I found fighters to be very boring. I originally wanted to create a Fighter/Warlock/Fellblade build. But I just couldn't stand the lack of fighter options long enough to actually push through until I got to the point where my fighter would dual class to warlock.
So, I ended up creating a ranger/warlock. Because of the fact that the ranger class has more options (level 1 divine spells currently), I actually am enjoying this build. I definitely plan to continue this build and already feel more engaged by using ranger as a base to form my build upon.

[*Sinlinara]

Warlocks are like the ultimate pacifist class, they do absolutely no damage whatsoever, but stun everthing forever.

That is one way to play them, I guess. Personally, I see Warlocks as the single greatest AoE Damage dealers. Sure, doing ~100 DPR with an Eldritch Blast isn't much compared to some builds that do ~300 DPR to a single target, but with just three enemies a Warlock can Eldritch Chain and be competitive on the DPR. Get up to six enemies in one place and even if every enemy succeeds at their save you can still get 300+ DPR with an Eldritch Doom.

Things get even more silly with more than 6 enemies. For testy-reasons on the test-server me and Ariella had to kill a lot of mobs really quickly and ended up with a system where she spawned around 50 endgame mobs on top of a max Eldritch Blast Damage Warlock that could kill all of them with only three Eldritch Dooms.

[*rapsam2003]

Things get even more silly with more than 6 enemies. For testy-reasons on the test-server me and Ariella had to kill a lot of mobs really quickly and ended up with a system where she spawned around 50 mobs on top of a max Eldritch Blast Damage Warlock that could kill all of them with only three Eldritch Dooms.

:lol: :D

And this is why I always liked warlocks, in the OC/MotB/SoZ and in just about every PW I played in.

[*Strawberry Jam]

Point is still that melee can get most of what a caster has in terms of survivability without much fuss.

Yeah, no. High HP and mediocre AC don't add up to what a caster regularly shields themselves with... and yes, you can use wands (cross-class skill taking all of your base skill points) but they cost money (which I somehow doubt you have so little issue with unless your friends are helping) and can only give you the most basic defences for a relatively short time, which late game can get dispelled with a single Disjunction.

I just made about 20k in an hour and I'm not even epic. Every weapon is either enchanted out the wazoo or has spells on it. I really don't see what you're getting all ruffled about here. How does a caster have better hp and ac when their spells are more or less all capped to the same as gear. Why complain about cross skills when you're getting 30ish fats, just take able learner. I self heal, I self buff, I can cast spells, I have over 300 hp and not even epic, I can make 20k in a few hours, my ac is already skirting on 50, and I'm not even epic. If you're complaining the spells are easier to dispell than true caster, well.... sorry fighters aren't immortal demi gods?

I think the biggest issue, for folks like myself anyway, is that the standard fighter class is boring. If we add a few more fighter specific feats, that'd do a lot towards making it less so.

Hehe, back in 2nd edition they were just meat shield, 3.5 added combat modes and feats to spice things up. 4h added basically sword magic, not sure how that compares with 5th tho~


Oh yeah warlocks have some nice things, like infinite invocations wow. I notice with a tower shield most can't scratch me because of that 60% concealment tho. :blink:

Rogues, now there is an unloved archetype that could really use a helping hand.

[*rapsam2003]

Hehe, back in 2nd edition they were just meat shield, 3.5 added combat modes and feats to spice things up. 4h added basically sword magic, not sure how that compares with 5th tho~

In 2E, fighters had some interesting kits: Complete Fighter's Handbook; start on page 23. (Note that, technically, "2E Warriors" also included Paladins. For some reason, the book also seems to include a single rogue kit.) Kits in 2E tended to have a few kit-specific mechanics. An unkitted fighter was pretty boring, however, imho.
Combat modes in 3.5 are fine, but in NWN2...you just toggle them and forget about them. Feats are great; but everyone takes the same feats (mostly). So, there's not much uniqueness to a fighter.
As for 4E? Let's not talk about it. Swordmages & the like were an abomination.
In 5E, fighters are basically like a more fun version of 2E fighters, with "archetypes" (basically kits) and archetype-specific mechanics.

Oh yeah warlocks have some nice things, like infinite invocations wow.

Warlocks are even better than they were by default in OC/MotB/SoZ too, because of the fact that this PW uses Warlock Buddy.

[*edmaster44]

..how the hell you use warlock buddy >_>, never could figure it out lol.

[*phantomhermit]

Mixing warlock into any build (without messing up the favored class balance for xp reasons) that you can is super fun and adds a lot of rp potential in my experience. You are a fighter. And have a patron. Sort of a favored soul of eldritchness.