Warlock Rules Clarification Question

[*mperantie]

I was exploring the abyss a bit yesterday when I saw a couple of other players. One of them sent me a tell informing me that casting spells while in devil shape (via word of changing) is verboten. When I asked, the person said hideous blow via warlock buddy while polymorphed is okay. I assumed that they were accurate in their statement of the rules and stopped the activity. Now I would just like to confirm that their statement was accurate. Below I'll list what I believe to be the arguments for and against:

PRO:
The engine allows it. I didn't do anything special to cast spells while shifted.
A devil should have the physical capability to perform both the verbal and somatic components of spell casting.

CON:
Casting while shifted is over powered (???).
Maybe not allowed in PnP (no warlocks in my 1st edition books).

Sidebar:
I am surprised by how many warlocks are on this server. I decided to play one because I thought it would be a fairly unique character. No one plays warlocks on the powerbuilding servers I frequent. I have been tempted to abandon him several times to play a more unique character (like maybe a fighter12/bard1/RDD10/WM7 ;) ), but I have already invested quite a bit of RP time in him.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

It is not against server rules, now if/when we do want to prevent people casting spells in polymorph/shapechange, we'll likely adjust the spell to disallow it, and I think Obsidian has fixed it for most other classes? Might remember wrong.

[*Marek Ovilion]

In all honesty, when in cornugon, I had never once had a player or DM tell me that was forbidden. If it fits into the RP of your character also being cognizant over the powers you possessed while in normal form, why not? Why would that be forbidden? Are you RPing it?

I agree, it is in the engine. I disagree that it's over-powered. When you cast once every round, as opposed to melee classes that can hit 5 times per round for about 100-140 on average. I see in no way how this is over-powered.

When this kind of blatant 'let's go bash a class because they can do something I can't do' mentality occurs ask them why they feel the need to rain down on your parade. Isn't the game about fun?

So let's go nerf monks because of their speed.
Let's go nerf HiPsers because they can get out of dangerous situations.
Let's go nerf dex/int classes because they can bend the AC rules well above what the rest of us can.
Hell while we're at it, let's just disallow for multi-classing since there are combos of classes that even with a +5 cap on armor can get 62 armor plus wizard buffs up to 9th.

I mean that's foolish. Just keep doing what you're doing :)

[*Raneguin]

Yeah, for some reasons Warlocks are popular here.

But, as with the female tieflings. I was the first there too! :D

[*pelhikano]

It's not like the demon shape is even terribly strong, and AFAIK it makes you vulnerable to Dismissal and other such outsider-destroying spells as well.

[*mperantie]

In all honesty, when in cornugon, I had never once had a player or DM tell me that was forbidden. If it fits into the RP of your character also being cognizant over the powers you possessed while in normal form, why not? Why would that be forbidden? Are you RPing it?

I agree, it is in the engine. I disagree that it's over-powered. When you cast once every round, as opposed to melee classes that can hit 5 times per round for about 100-140 on average. I see in no way how this is over-powered.

On the topic of RPing my use of the Cornugon: I do RP the use, and it is consistent with my character. In this particular situation, the other party and I were more like ships passing in the night. They passed me going the other direction at a distance. There really was not much of an opportunity to RP. They stated that they didn't care that I was doing it - they were just trying to help me avoid getting in trouble.

I agree that warlock is not OP (hence my ???). There is a reason no one plays them on the powerbuilding action servers I play on. Their damage is less and comes later in the round. Sure a warlock *can* do a lot of damage (catch a huge mob with an Eldritch doom), but they need specialized circumstances to compete with the high DPS builds. I have seen plenty of builds that average over 1000 points of damage/round. A warlock is not going to do that unless he runs into the right mob.

Glad to know I haven't been cheating.

[*Lost and not Found]

Well, I did some quick testing.

Yes, Warlock can cast spells when shapeshifted. But being having shapeshifted, the key for quickcast window is disabled as are any invocations on the quick bars. However, they can get the quickcast window through their eye menu and use it to cast their spells.

For Wizards who use "Polymorph Self", the deal is the same. By accessing the quickcast menu through the eye menu, I was able to cast spells as usual as an "Illithid". Both offensive and defensive spells with no spell failure.

The resting was done in Vordan's Hero Creator.

So much for the exploit fix. But it does allow option people to role-play a Illithid Wizard or Sorcerer. When they become able to cast level 4 spells.

[*[<3]]

Too bad the character still isn't a cornugon or mindflayer but still just a shapechanged human / tiefling / etc. ;)

That bug to be able to cast via the so-called 'eye' menu has been known for ages though ...
And why should arcanists be able to do so for free, when druids on the other hand have to purchase an extra feat for it, rules-wise ?
It's a bug folks, pure and simple.

[*Lost and not Found]

According to game mechanics, Druids don't need the feat either, unless they are quite stubborn on using the hotkey for quick cast menu.

Well... from one point of view...

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I think by DnD rules shapechanging/polymorphing to creature capable of talking (and not just making animal noises like druidic wildshapes) makes one capable of casting spells as well.

So I think that makes:
Polymorph self
- Troll
- Mindflayer


Shapechange
- Fire Giant
- Frost Giant
- Horned Devil (Cornugon)

Now of course if I remember all wrong, feel free to correct me :P the druidic feat that allows you to cast spells in wildshapes also doesn't make you capable of talking IC, just cast spells while you bark or stuff.

*edit* Ah, here it is:
"If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language [animal is not language]) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components."