I Was Thinking . . .

[*SigTerm]

EDIT : I dont know the setting all that well honsetly, thus i dont understand fuly why the setting has anything to do with outsiders late game. but...

And that's the point where you go and play planescape: torment or read D&D books.

It is not a matter of "past lore".

There's a whole cosmology. Prime worlds (like toril), and many planes that lie outside of them. The planes (or worlds) can be related to an element, a fundamental force (like law, chaos, evil, good, life death - those are fundamental forces), or lie somewhere inbetween.

Related (3.5) D&D books would be manual of the planes, Fiendish Codex I and Fiendish Codex II. There are many others.

[*DaftyXIII]

"Plane of Ooze" (no idea where it is)

its in the plane of earth, you'll know it when you se it... i stumbled upon it by acident thast the only reason i know.

The problem of SCoD has currently, is that it is a server that has gone through several different building philosophies. You could probably ask most builders/players/DMs how they view that SCoD should be played, and get different answers almost every time.

I dint know the wheal was reinvented so to speak in SCoD, but yes I agree with if i asked some one how SCoD should be played i'd get so many diffrent answers i'll probably be sick.

Overall the reason for this post is about us who think something needs to be buffed/nerfed as we all have our on way of playing as you said because of our wants/needs. If we all perhaps had a idea on how it was ment to be played. as in not going from the rats in the swers to brux, then to Astral Planes or plane of ice. basicaly playing hop scotch around the planes because we are pushing the envelope just to get more EXP faster. In the end of all that, I genraly do a rebuild atleast 2 times till i get to max level becasue my gear is bad. heck I got a character who is ECL 14, she has no magic gear on her but the weapons gained from the quests because reasons that upset me greatly.. and she has almost no gold because she keeps dieing, like less than 1k poor.

now, as said many diffrent results are gunna happen, but i'm sure there is a average common ground that stuff can be based of of i assume?

I apoligize for not quoting you all with a response but thank you for your input it helps me gain a bit of understanding I hope :)

"Releveling twice because of bad gear" may happen if you skip the bazaar.

Basically, somewhere in the middle of the slaughtering frenzy, character needs to stop, go to bazaar, sell all the junk they carry, find a player-controlled merchant, talk to them and buy gear. By level 3..6 you definitely should be able to afford at least one +4 tier items, and if you get lucky you may be able to get full set of them.

However, I've seen people who REALLY rush through leveling, and may easily end up in limbo or in abyss with starting gear. Or someone who kept trying to rush Bugbears at level 2 or 3 with a light armored character that had neither a shield nor a combat expertise, with GateCrasher enabled.

while you are right... there has recently been a decline of merchants as of recently.. once again.. and I cant get mine to make/encahnt/sell to my other pc's as its mueling, so its just I'm having bad luck honsetly after roughly 17:00 or 18:00 PST almost no merchants are in sight and earlier in the morning its the same thing x.x im generally on once i wake up too 12:00 pst then back on 17:00 or 18:00 PST most days, so while there may be merchants around sigil while i'm not on.. they arnt when i'm on.

as for the easy bit, they arnt solo i assume? I'm here to tell you and not to get into details as no one wants to hear me cry because i'm alone 95% of the time. but yes I'm alone 95% of the time on SCoD, for whatever reason whether its cliques formed not accepting outsiders or he said or she said deal.. eather way there is a number of possibility and I could have burned a bridge or two without knowing as i was not told. So after a month when i first started on SCoD i made it my job to try and welcome the newer players and offer them assistance as they request or RP if they want all they needed to do is send me a tell. Not many new players as i'm aware of tho atm but i found two yseterday (they might be youngins, but I have the patience with kids thankfully), in hopes i can make them feel more welcome than i felt the first month.

BUT it could be the fella's gear who was in limbo was jsut enough to get him by with the build he/she ran which complimented eachother. /shrugs

all i know is i have the hardest time solo than in a group beacasue of my preferred style of builds perhaps.

[*MimiFearthegn]

Its worth noting that some of these areas were built specifically to be "other options" - especially if you're talking about something built in the last few years. Occasionally these areas take the place of the things they were just meant to be alternatives to (Astral seems like that). I'm not sure that's a bad thing in most of the cases where its happened.

Or they're there to fill a gap in the previous "most popular" leveling path. Limbo monsters were built to fill the pre-Abyss gap for the PCs who couldn't keep up momentum between (at that time) Baator and the Abyss.

Some areas were built to be just as much about variety as leveling utility. We have a bunch of elemental planes in the mid-level range mainly because some builders wanted more elemental planes (its Sigil, its planescape, we should get to explore!). I think we're almost to the point where we can make a complete loop with them, and then we can spend the midlevels subjecting our characters to alternately being set on fire, drowned, and frozen.

Of course, a few outliers have been created along the way. For instance the super Carcerie (which I've never gone to; getting a group together to take even normal-level Carcerie can be a pain as it is). That wasn't really a change in any universal build philosophy, though. That was one builder who liked to power build creating a super hard area.

[*SigTerm]

while you are right... there has recently been a decline of merchants as of recently.. once again.. and I cant get mine to make/encahnt/sell to my other pc's as its mueling, so its just I'm having bad luck honsetly after roughly 17:00 or 18:00 PST almost no merchants are in sight and earlier in the morning its the same thing x.x im generally on once i wake up too 12:00 pst then back on 17:00 or 18:00 PST most days, so while there may be merchants around sigil while i'm not on.. they arnt when i'm on.

as for the easy bit, they arnt solo i assume? I'm here to tell you and not to get into details as no one wants to hear me cry because i'm alone 95% of the time. but yes I'm alone 95% of the time on SCoD, for whatever reason whether its cliques formed not accepting outsiders or he said or she said deal.. eather way there is a number of possibility and I could have burned a bridge or two without knowing as i was not told. So after a month when i first started on SCoD i made it my job to try and welcome the newer players and offer them assistance as they request or RP if they want all they needed to do is send me a tell. Not many new players as i'm aware of tho atm but i found two yseterday (they might be youngins, but I have the patience with kids thankfully), in hopes i can make them feel more welcome than i felt the first month.

BUT it could be the fella's gear who was in limbo was jsut enough to get him by with the build he/she ran which complimented eachother. /shrugs

all i know is i have the hardest time solo than in a group beacasue of my preferred style of builds perhaps.

Regarding "Easy part" I rarely ever play in a party (meaning 95..98% of time), but I usually try to grab gear from a PC merchant when I have an opportunity. By level 9..12, maybe 14 I'll usually have a decently kitted out character with at least +4 gear. Interestingly, crafting it all yourself may easily end up costing more than buying it.

Merchants seems to be hanging around during GMT+0 night time, meaning most activity should be should be happening during PST day - meaning starting at 9:00..10:00 am PST time.

There should be at least three or four merchants total taking turns at the moment. Of course, there are occasional days when nobody is present.

[*DaftyXIII]

It's currently designed for most playstyles. Those who want to powerlevel their characters quickly will use the Brux/Limbo/Astral/Abyss. Those who want a slower experience will use the other areas more freely, taking their time and exploring as they RP. Thos with no real interest in levelling (or wanting to do so slowly) will use the RP areas and the lowest XP areas as they see fit.

This allows inclusion for most player types.

Interesting, Rob if I may ask... what made the decision to compliment the number of possibility styles of grinding? As it makes no sense to me as i'm not developer, and I would like to learn and understand more about the decision if that's ok :)

I think adding these areas to the Infinite Staircase would aid in them seeing more traffic, also.

I just noticed this post, sorry for neglecting my response all teh same, but this is a possibility to that, I like it :) I asume it'll be simmierly done with Minauros leading to Maldomini through a pit? i would like to see something like that done again :) but i'll admit not many know that The Outlands exist in the Hall of Records i meet one as a example who played on SCoD for 3 years off and on at the time and didn't know about that place, i also stumbled on folks that didn't know the Wand of Item Sorting existed in the merchant at the OOC room that played the same amount of time when i started x.x now thast not SCoD's fault really its more of a players fault lacking the drive to explore around taking in all the sights and seeing where stuff is. So once again I like the idea of a transiton in some place leading to a connected plane :) perhaps start with high traffic planes and add those in? hopefully after folks see that these things exist in a number of places, perhaps it'll motivate folks to explore?

[*DaftyXIII]

Its worth noting that some of these areas were built specifically to be "other options" - especially if you're talking about something built in the last few years. Occasionally these areas take the place of the things they were just meant to be alternatives to (Astral seems like that). I'm not sure that's a bad thing in most of the cases where its happened.

Or they're there to fill a gap in the previous "most popular" leveling path. Limbo monsters were built to fill the pre-Abyss gap for the PCs who couldn't keep up momentum between (at that time) Baator and the Abyss.

Some areas were built to be just as much about variety as leveling utility. We have a bunch of elemental planes in the mid-level range mainly because some builders wanted more elemental planes (its Sigil, its planescape, we should get to explore!). I think we're almost to the point where we can make a complete loop with them, and then we can spend the midlevels subjecting our characters to alternately being set on fire, drowned, and frozen.

Of course, a few outliers have been created along the way. For instance the super Carcerie (which I've never gone to; getting a group together to take even normal-level Carcerie can be a pain as it is). That wasn't really a change in any universal build philosophy, though. That was one builder who liked to power build creating a super hard area.

huh, I never thought about it that way, it makes sense RP wise for sure... now if i may pitch in a idea witch im sure was already implimented.

What if there where a place other than The Lake of Fire or any Group Adventure Areas located In This Link are added for a bit more diversity on who and what we face? all I seem to engage in those areas are Fiends or Undead (i have not been to them all so i could be wrong) I would love to see a more diverse NPC mob type to kill :) as i would like to use lets say poisons or perhaps have a sneak attack build without needing Epic Percison, its just a thought that perhpas there are lvl 25+ worthy NPC foes to go against that might have diffrent resistances and damage types offering more diversity to our builds to counter those possible new foes :)

NOTE : sry for a double post if it is one by the time i click submit >.>

[*zethrenx99]

I would also like to add that the list of pc merchants whom keep and sell low tier gear (even plain +5 gear) is low. Most i've seen stick to purple items or your typically "enchant later" +5's and not alot of +3/4's. On that note, npc merchant gear is extremely expensive for new players (like 2k for mundane fullplate is something that a lvl 1-3 is going to struggle with, and the ones that need fullplate are typically the ones that cant survive long enough to make money).

I also agree on the awareness side, my first time playing it took me about an hour just to find a lvl 1 spot (think i got pointed to the slags by an npc?) I had to use the wiki on portals and keys (witch some one i ran into pointed me towards) to figure out where to go. And even with the site, without knowing the layout of sigil it wasn't too helpful. If I remember right i ran into some one who was relveling their character and she showed me "the ropes" which where basically brux->limbo->abyss.

[*DaftyXIII]

I also agree on the awareness side, my first time playing it took me about an hour just to find a lvl 1 spot (think i got pointed to the slags by an npc?) I had to use the wiki on portals and keys (witch some one i ran into pointed me towards) to figure out where to go. And even with the site, without knowing the layout of sigil it wasn't too helpful. If I remember right i ran into some one who was relveling their character and she showed me "the ropes" which where basically brux->limbo->abyss.

I agree with your statement, but I found a interactive map that eventually helped me as yeah it can be abit confusing I agree. if you would like to share this map here it might help others liek it helped me :)

I mean nothing like a new playe in the sewers who had to respawn casue of death and exit the mortuary asking "where do i go from here?" or they dont know there is a perosn who will take them directly back where they died.. yeah i figured that out after seeing some one talk to the npc and dissaper so i talked to the npc out of curiosity XD


EDIT : I linked the wrong map, this one is the interactive one Linkage to real interctive map

[*Tsidkenu]

I've visited both Khalas and the Ethereal with recent characters. I think Khalas is neglected primarily because the mobs in there hurl dispels at you incessantly. So unless you're a character to whom dispel means nothing and you can survive the spam of other spell-hurling, there's no point going there at all really if your char is only going to become a flailing wet noodle every minute you're in there.

Ethereal is quite nice for levels 8-15 if you can get a nice group with a healer to restore all the lost HP from the inevitable spam of Shocking Hands all those little spider golems do.

[*MimiFearthegn]

What if there where a place other than The Lake of Fire or any Group Adventure Areas located In This Link are added for a bit more diversity on who and what we face? all I seem to engage in those areas are Fiends or Undead (i have not been to them all so i could be wrong) I would love to see a more diverse NPC mob type to kill :) as i would like to use lets say poisons or perhaps have a sneak attack build without needing Epic Percison, its just a thought that perhpas there are lvl 25+ worthy NPC foes to go against that might have diffrent resistances and damage types offering more diversity to our builds to counter those possible new foes :)

We tend to get stuck in the "build outsider monsters" rut just because of the setting. I agree that more variety would be better at the end of the day.