Staff Rulling: Can Dragons Detect Other Dragons?

[*b00seven]

Do we have a clear staff rule on this?



I just had an odd case where Juna unknowingly invited a chromatic dragon into his lair. We ended up resolving it by retconning the scene, as the only other option when 2 apex predators find themselves inside one of their lairs, it basically blows up from there.

[*KingLeoric]

Yes.

Server Rules

"Abilities, spells or other things that aren't in game engine requires consent of the DM (in events, or situations they are present in) or all players it affects to. If no consent is given, then the said abilities just can't be used."

So it is up to a DM or EM (or players, if there is no DM/EM nearby).

However in PnP "No" is a clear answer. You are able to guess (behavior and etc.) but not to know exactly.

[*Sareth675]

I would recommend the True Seeing spell, should you really wish to know who is a dragon or not. Though that doesn't really help too much, since mechanically it won't represent 'what is assuming another form', rather, you would have to send tells to everyone you see to discern who was a dragon, or whatever other shape changed race they were.

And I can assure you now, doing that will make you no friends :P There's a reason said characters (or players of said characters) are assuming their shape changed forms. Normally, to avoid the hassle of being in their main form. Or to avoid detection. Or any other numerous reasons to shape change. And I'm not even 100% sure how staff feel about that exact RP effect of the spell. Mechanically in game, all it does is give you see invisibility after all.

[*Neutral Zone]

However in PnP "No" is a clear answer. You are able to guess (behavior and etc.) but not to know exactly.

It's actually rather unclear in PnP, as there's nothing saying it doesn't. In fact, the True Seeing spell, via 3.5e, says it shows the true form of transmuted objects too.

Funny implication: Do the Dabus use transmutation magic to alter Sigil? Ergo the implication being that True Seeing drives oneself bonkers in the Cage.

On a more serious note, given this is a CPRG and not PnP, I'd be inclined to rule (were I in such a position) that True Seeing does not work on a dragon's Alternate Form ability (or for doppelgangers, lycanthropes, and other shapechangers for that matter.). There are a lot of players that walk around with True Seeing always up.

Unless the person has it specifically written in their bio/description, I always ask for consent. It's a basic rule that helps avoid conflict, misunderstandings, and arguments.

On a similar note, dragons in PnP (3.5e) do not have the 'Scent' ability. I'm fine with them sniffing out other dragons, but again, permission should be asked first.

[*Love_on_a_Wire]

There's no canonical, inherent ability of dragons, that doesn't involve casting a spell, that allows them to immediately know whether another being is a dragon, short of having a Dragon Orb in their possession or just paying attention.

Not to judge roleplay, but the solution would be for your dragon to just be more conscientious about who he's inviting to his closely guarded home.

[*Ariella]

No, Nor does true seeing reveal without player consent.

"Abilities, spells or other things that aren't in game engine requires consent of the DM (in events, or situations they are present in) or all players it affects to. If no consent is given, then the said abilities just can't be used."

So it is up to a DM or EM (or players, if there is no DM/EM nearby).

This is right on the money.

[*KingLeoric]

As I said in PnP 'No' is a basic thing for that. Yes True Seeing allows you revealing a dragon in PnP however. But you cant do much about it if you do not have TS up. And here it will be consent only or should be allowed by a DM/EM.

[*Vault 101]

A Dragon can track you by scent as provided by the game engine. If I set you to hostile I can find you, using the Scent feat... and I can use that feat to find you time and time again no matter what ten thousand forms you jump in between.

You can claim 'I dont have a scent' but my feat says otherwise. By setting someone to hostile I gain the mechanical ability to RP my characters ability to find you based on your smell and no amount of your RPing that you dont have a scent will stop that any more than someone declaring they are immune to being knocked down after you whack them with your knockdown feat.

The scent feat is part of the game engine and it really is just splitting hairs to say 'Well you could track me but you cant tell what I am even though you have probably smelled dozens of memebers of my species' If someone says that then they are giving me a clear signal to find someone else to play with.

If someone has taken the care to hide their scent with illusion magic, dont let them in your house?

[*WhenWizardsWar]

A Dragon can track you by scent as provided by the game engine. If I set you to hostile I can find you, using the Scent feat... and I can use that feat to find you time and time again no matter what ten thousand forms you jump in between.

You can claim 'I dont have a scent' but my feat says otherwise. By setting someone to hostile I gain the mechanical ability to RP my characters ability to find you based on your smell and no amount of your RPing that you dont have a scent will stop that any more than someone declaring they are immune to being knocked down after you whack them with your knockdown feat.

The scent feat is part of the game engine and it really is just splitting hairs to say 'Well you could track me but you cant tell what I am even though you have probably smelled dozens of memebers of my species' If someone says that then they are giving me a clear signal to find someone else to play with.

Yes and no. The beliefs i have in place, and the way i handle such things in game are simple.

We will take Edwin, everyone knows oocly hes a red dragon, plenty of people suspect hes a wyrm in game but they have no proof, and only one persron knows with out a doubt what he because he has revealed his secret to her.

I get tells all the time with the following questions/statements all the time.

Them:"I have the scent feat, i can smell your a dragon".
Me:All you will smell right now is a dirty, sweaty blood caked human because right now, that's WHAT he is".

Them:But If i go hostile my scent feat allows me to track you if your hostile.

Me:Right, it allows you to track a smelly, blood caked dirty human because right now thats WHAT he is.

If they continue to press the issue and insist their sense of smell is so accute to even sniff pass that then i appologise to them and say im sorry because if their sense of smell is that super accute inhalling in sigil would drive them bonkers :).

As for true seeing, my reasoning of now consenting to it is simple.

1:The Dragons are not becoming invisible.
2: they are not wrapping a shape change spell around themselves they are becoming their alternate form, hair, skin, breath, heart, liver, kidneys tits and ass's, all of it so there is nothing "false" for truesight to even see past, same thing for wildshape.
3:It all comes down to the way i look at it, is that their changing ability cannot be dispelled or removed except for the dragons own will, there is no magic "per say" to see through.
4:However, on the flip side of the coin, a wizard casting shapechange or such spells would be subject to a truesight.

Mind you, these are just my opinions on the matter and why i do not consent to sniff identifying or certain truesight situations.

So, as far as my dragon pcs (yes more t hen one, muahahah). the only way youll ever find out what edwin really is pretty much him telling you, or you catching him in the act of changing, sure people could tell you they think or they known hes a wyrm but right now, only one person has that ability to say and be truthful :).

Anyway, just my ten cents on the "smell/truesight" card.

[*Alersia]

A dragon has keen senses. I think I read somewhere that they can smell other dragons, even in disguise.