Do you want Guns?

[*Ve'keer]

Considering how the DM team is planning on implementing this I see no problem with it and think it fits in line with the setting.

Now that I've been assured Gatling gun demons are not the intention and flintlock/primitive firearms are the current quasi-direction we're heading in, as well as reading the Pathfinder on primitive guns -- which honestly if we followed strictly would be so weak no one would use them -- I think no one has anything to lose by adding this. Especially considering gun-models and hence rp'd guns are already in the game, I think it's nothing more than a mechanical change to better accommodate what players who wanted to were already doing.

Not to mention, at this point in the game's lifespan and on a very high-magic server like sigil there's really no point I can see in hindering how players want to play things they can play in pnp if they wanted to. If we're worried about breaking immersion then I can see that argument having weight, but still there's highly engineered characters on the server already taking advantage of steam power/gnomish engineering. It's a definite yes from me right now but I would like to see another more in depth poll on how they should work mechanically in the game.

[*Lucadia]

Enchanting: Deflect arrows should be a popular choice. You can now rp dodging bullets.

[*Tomekk]

...and swords that make warhammer 40k characters jealous.

That's cute :p D&D +5 swords don't have an energy field that breaks down molecular bonds when activated and neither can they cut through 10 inches of adamantium armor like butter. Let's not get into other weapon types like the Xenophase/Hyperphase swords that simply phase out of existence until they bypass any armor or protective field.

Back on topic, I don't think we need more guns, or rather, a dedicated gun weapon type. There are already a few sprinkled into crossbow models, and that's perfectly fine for two reasons: the rare artificer/gunslinger characters can take those and mechanically they work almost the same way as crossbows, without the addition of a misfire chance and higher critical range. I'd be okay with adding a few more models to exisiting ones, but not a new weapon that we will suddenly see in everybody's hands.

We're already gleefully ignoring the setting book's many suggestions for a more grounded, medieval fantasy environment in spite of the high magic setting (like no "long range communication devices") so I don't think we should encourage the drift further.

Setting wise, I feel like introducing guns is one of those things that are going to affect all layers of the universe, and is something you can't really take back once committed to.
If every berk gets the ability to simply point (a very concealable weapon) at somebody and kill them, that's going to change things. Doesn't take much thought to figure out that you can make bullets out of silver/cold-iron etc. At least magic requires years of learning and proper aptitude, and has plenty of already-established counters in the game.
And, as mentioned, there already exists a gun model in the game which can freely be applied to any crossbow you own.

This is a very good view aswell. Guns of any kind basically spell the end of the typical medieval fantasy trope, as a weapon capable of hitting through armor with very little training is suddenly on the field of battle... and you bet that everyone will want their hands on it.

The old CRPG Arcanum - Of Steampunk & Magic Obscura portrayed this very well: once humanity unlocked the power of steam and fire arms, every nation or race that couldn't keep up was simply made irrelevant. A modern city state utterly oppressed an entire kingdom who's fabled knights we're mowed down by musket lines, Elves were forced into the corners of the world, Orcs were enslaved into cheap labor and Dwarves hid themselves in shame of letting humanity learn their secrets.

I can't imagine what would happen the moment demons or other unsavory folk got their hands on firearms and cannons... probably nothing as awesome as Warhammer Fantasy, but something definitely not medieval as Planescape sets out to be, that's for sure.

[*Hydra]

I don't see any records of guns in Sigil cannon but I don't think they'll make a huge difference gameplay wise for they will have the same weight as other weapons, its just style over substance.

[*Lucadia]

Demons get firearms. Nothing happens. Because ..they still use damage of the weapon system. They dont become new aged weapons. They follow item creation rules.

By replacing one the ranged types as a new category, can throw all the firearms in there and adjust what ever flavor is needed.

Your logic also goes back and forth. Only dedicated characters would be gunslingers. Well yeah. Thats what happen if you added the category. Not everyone is going pack one, specialy when its in line with crossbows.

Where is the "no long range communication devices" thing? Even Krynn has crude telephones and every mage with sending :D

[*edmaster44]

https://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sending_stones

Long range communication devices

[*witchinghour]

Those communication devices are made with magic, not your stereotypical technology gadgets, I believe the point is.

And I believe from a lore perspective, Demons getting firearms is like tipping the bloodwar in some way. Bad juju there.

All in all, my general opinion is no, I do not want firearms more based on what it could mean when they're more widespread in the center of the multiverse. I think the few crossbow models we have are just fine for rp :D Although I do like the thought of maybe novelty items or with significant drawbacks that are worth the risk.

[*Bleuception]

Note: Lots of ranting amidst my opinions below, and my thoughts on it. I realized only after writing it that it sounded really dry and somewhat passive-aggressive, but bear in mind that this is directed to nobody in particular, but rather a lot of pent-up aggression towards the limits of D&D 3.5 and NWN2. Sadly, this version of D&D suffers from a lot of imbalances in how weapons were designed.

TL;DR: Yes! I'd like firearms, mostly because I want variety! Lhea is using a Sling right now, but I wouldn't mind changing from that option depending on how and if guns are implemented in way that works.




Given that I did want this, I vote yes.


My current main character, Lhea Gheister, makes extensive use of the Sling with feats such as weapon focus and so on. And while that is the case? If slings were replaced, I would not be bothered at all.

However above states crossbows might be the ones to go. Again, not bothered.


The fact of the matter is that outside of very specific builds, Longbow trumps all, in every single case, and even then those specific builds can typically be thrown out the water by the over-popularized, and in comparison to other ranged weapons, over-performing Longbow.

Planescape is the Multiverse, with things like Giff who commonly make use of firearms in their Spelljamming. Gnomes and their inventions. Disciples of deities of inventions such as Gond from the Forgotten Realms setting, and since there are Golarion gods available in the character creation; the city-state of Alkenstar, which gained a fair bit of power due to the invention of the firearms on Golarion. Even their crest is a marked with a pair of crossed flintlock rifles.

To me, that Sigil doesn't have such technology available when other things of a more complex nature than pellets of lead propelled out from a tube by a small explosion are already present is what doesn't make sense. I still do not understand how or why people refuse to understand that firearms are not that complex, when you have such things as golems walking around, or all the gizmos in Mechanus.

Bear in mind that my wording here might be a bit dry, and apologize for that. But frankly, whereas people think it would be tiring to see everybody suddenly turn up with guns, I on the other hand, am on the side with people who are tired to see every other marksman only, solely, using the Longbow as it was, and still is, basically the only good options due to mechanical limitations that D&D 3.5/NWN2 imposes upon other weapon types. Lhea won't ever be as good as somebody with the same build, but using a bow. Yet I sick to slings for the moment because of one reason;


All I want is variety. I don't want firearms to be the new Longbow. I want firearms to be a viable option when compare to that over-glorified rod and string.


And yes, we currently have the option of crossbows roleplayed as firearms, but to reiterate; crossbows are vastly inferior due to the game rules imposed upon them. Not to mention, they are vastly overpriced compared to other weapons and often come with a -10% or more (up to -50% on one? Pardon my memory, I didn't take notes on that) to a type of elemental damage. Which instantly makes such weapon lose in terms of usefulness when, once again, compared to the Longbow.

Ergo, the forbiddingly pricy cost and imposed, seemingly arbitrary vulnerability makes this essentially a poor option for anybody that isn't already established an swimming in money. Which defeats the purpose of the point I bring up; having more options. In this case, it would be more like having an option, somewhere, tucked in a corner, except you can never really say your character is a gunsmith or somesuch since you have to buy it from an exotic items trader which has a price tag that would allow you to get items that have a better value, in the long run, say a Bag of Holding. And let's be perfectly honest here; in a multiverse of magic and creatures that can withstand giant, enchanted swords swung at them, and in which said magic can thoroughly destroy another in a single action; pellets of lead as projectiles won't change the tides of power. This is for stylistic reasons and having more options that I encourage this, but if we want to talk about the balance of those options, we need to talk about magic and how it can basically solve every problem or just about.

Addendum: Planescape isn't your usual sword-and-sorcery setting, please note. So, yeah. I don't know why it would be a big deal.

[*Tomekk]

https://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sending_stones

Long range communication devices

Holding up FR as something to take seriously is like holding up professional wrestling as a competitive sport.

[*edmaster44]

https://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sending_stones

Long range communication devices

Holding up FR as something to take seriously is like holding up professional wrestling as a competitive sport.

It's also in a few Source books if you bother reading the references, and the spell sending is also a thing since 2e.