Proxies

[*edmaster44]

Just to re-iterate what i said in another post.

I have an idea. One iÂ’ve been letting sit and thinking on for a very long time, and itÂ’s simply to remove the focus on the factions, and instead, group them by five and making them proxies to the factions. The first obvious grouping would be the triad of law(Guvner, Mercykillers, Harmonium). They could do the leg work of all three factions. Law&Order and processing criminals too, i think it will remove that player barrair of needing to know all of Planescape Lore in order to get into it. Another example could be the Triad of creativity. Senate, Sign of One and hell. Why not Xaosmen. They could have a focus on making fun social events, and musical performances, again, without that Faction ideals looming over them.

In my Opinion, it gives DM's and EM the ease to make Events centered around these proxies now that the Lore heavy/philosophical barrier alleviated. It also allows for more Player initiated events or Player driven movements that can affect Proxies and the climate of Sigil as we whole without that Looming"Oh you can't do this cause of the lady of pain...." barrier, it also allows for greater visibility and reduces the response Time from DM's and Event Masters now that the factions aren't as super spread out too 15. This does NOT remove the factions, but instead refocuses, and trims down the responsibility of DM, or any Event Master, making them generate more events and making the Factions not as Important and re-purposed more as Plot hooks.'
Thoughts..?

[*rapsam2003]

Might I suggest the following groupings, based on common interests and Alliances in lore?

• Guvners, Harmonium, Mercykillers -- "Triad of Law"
• Athar, Godsmen, Cipher -- "Transfigurers"
• Senates, Sign of One, Bleak Cabal -- "Creatives"
• Xaosmen, Doomguard, Anarchists -- "Dissonants"
• Fated, Free League, Dustmen -- "Marketers"

[*edmaster44]

Might I suggest the following groupings, based on common interests and Alliances in lore?

• Guvners, Harmonium, Mercykillers -- "Triad of Law"
• Athar, Godsmen, Cipher
• Senates, Sign of One, Bleak Cabal
• Xaosmen, Doomguard, Dustmen
• Fated, Free League, Anarchists

[*rapsam2003]

Added a slight change to reflect "titles" each proxy group could be given. :)

Feel free to suggest different names...

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I know the old grouping I made ages ago was:
Triad of Law - Harmonium, Mercykillers, Guvners
We Work For Ourselves - Fated, Free League, Revolutionary League
Gods Are Just Men - Athar, Believers of the Source, Sign of One
Life Has No Purpose - Bleak Cabal, Doomguard, Dustmen
Immersed By Diversity - Society of Sensation, Transcendent Order, Xaositects

[*Darkrob]

WeÂ’ve pretty much agreed in the past that this concept is a strong one that would benefit the server and those who wish to play the Factions. One of the issues that has delayed the implementation of it is; How do you combine the factions under similar umbrellas without watering down the individual philosophies or making three into one by combining responsibilities? The easiest to focus on, of course, is the current Triad; arrest, convict and punish. They are absolute in their purposes and work well together. You could easily combine the three without taking away too much from the individual Factions. Allow the Harmonium to decide the fate of minor criminals and their guilt while patrolling. Allow the MKÂ’s the ability to arrest and hold prisoners until the Harmonium process them. Allow the Guvs to pass sentences based on MK guidelines given them, etc. Easy to do, easy to maintain. ItÂ’s the others that get a bit foggy. Fated and Indeps are pretty similar but who do you add with them? Sensates? How do you factor in their responsibilities? Do the Sensates get new authority due to the Fated? Do Indeps become something more? Then it grows fuzzier as you include Dustmen, etc. What will they do under an umbrella group?

ItÂ’s the fine print that needs to be settled.

[*rapsam2003]

I know the old grouping I made ages ago was:
Triad of Law - Harmonium, Mercykillers, Guvners
We Work For Ourselves - Fated, Free League, Revolutionary League
Gods Are Just Men - Athar, Believers of the Source, Sign of One
Life Has No Purpose - Bleak Cabal, Doomguard, Dustmen
Immersed By Diversity - Society of Sensation, Transcendent Order, Xaositects

I actually like this better than my own grouping... Hmmm. Might I suggest coming up with shorter names for these groupings and then have mottos/slogans? We're basically wading into "custom lore" territory here, as I see it, for the good of the server. May as well go all out, right?


So...
"Upholding Law is paramount!" for the Triad as a motto (simple but direct).
Call the "Athar, Believers of the Source, Sign of One" proxy "Transfigurers" (as in those who transform or change or exalt).
Call the "Fated, Free League, Revolutionary League" proxy "Marketeers".
Call the "Society of Sensation, Transcendent Order, Xaositects" proxy "the Creatives".

Etc.

How do you combine the factions under similar umbrellas without watering down the individual philosophies or making three into one by combining responsibilities?

I don't think you need to water down the philosophies OR combine responsibilities. You're merely combining interests.

So, for the sake of argument, say we have Mr. O's grouping like so: "Immersed By Diversity - Society of Sensation, Transcendent Order, Xaositects". A Sensate NPC says, "Factol Amber would like to throw a party for all the important bloods in the city, particularly any of the Planeswalkers!" - which seems like a thing Amber would do... Then, our Sensate and Xaosmen friends might go about organizing and decorating (hehe, gets interesting, right?), while our Cipher friends work games of martial skill. None of the philosophies are watered down, and all work together.

The factions don't go away; they just work together for common goals/events.

[*edmaster44]

This, and it again, removes the whole huge philosophical barrier and makes it a lot easier for new players to join in, really, what i want this too accomplish is more Player Initiative, and DM's/EM's can get more creative with using the Factions for Plot hooks or Quest, without worrying about "Pissing off the Lady of Pain". Similar to Guilds, but a lot cooler with more Potential.

[*MimiFearthegn]

As Darkrob said, the issue is really with the finer details - when you start thinking about the factions and how people play with them, artificially grouping factions into groups of three starts to break down. Even the lore-stated alliances have those subgroups in each faction who cannot stand each other. Case in point, there are lots of faction alliances out there, including two groups of three (Triad of Law, Triad of Chaos), but getting those groupings to play nice with each other and be themselves just does not happen. Joint task forces for the Triad have been discussed with great interest from the PCs for years, and subsequently sabotaged in implementation due to disinterest or clashing with ongoing rp and plots. Ironically the Triad of Chaos tends to play better together, but usually at the cost of loosing any sort of differentiation between the philosophical Dustmen and Bleakers, and the most extreme action-oriented Doomguard.

The stumbling block is really getting there via roleplay, and then putting things in-game to remind everyone that it happened. Simply telling everyone that "you're now allied like this" isn't really very friendly to their RP, and doesn't help anyone use the lore better. It would be forgotten in a few weeks. Just like that Sensate-Signer alliance. . .

Which is not to say that its a bad idea! Just that we're starting at the wrong end. We have to explain how things change in game before we get to a place where they've changed, and everyone is playing by new alliances.

[*edmaster44]

As Darkrob said, the issue is really with the finer details - when you start thinking about the factions and how people play with them, artificially grouping factions into groups of three starts to break down. Even the lore-stated alliances have those subgroups in each faction who cannot stand each other. Case in point, there are lots of faction alliances out there, including two groups of three (Triad of Law, Triad of Chaos), but getting those groupings to play nice with each other and be themselves just does not happen. Joint task forces for the Triad have been discussed with great interest from the PCs for years, and subsequently sabotaged in implementation due to disinterest or clashing with ongoing rp and plots. Ironically the Triad of Chaos tends to play better together, but usually at the cost of loosing any sort of differentiation between the philosophical Dustmen and Bleakers, and the most extreme action-oriented Doomguard.

The stumbling block is really getting there via roleplay, and then putting things in-game to remind everyone that it happened. Simply telling everyone that "you're now allied like this" isn't really very friendly to their RP, and doesn't help anyone use the lore better. It would be forgotten in a few weeks. Just like that Sensate-Signer alliance. . .

Which is not to say that its a bad idea! Just that we're starting at the wrong end. We have to explain how things change in game before we get to a place where they've changed, and everyone is playing by new alliances.

Well, these changes can be announced In game and of course in forums and then implemented with a short introductory to each of these proxies and grouping "In order to pursue the greatest experiences imaginable, the Three factions that spark, caters, and inspires imagination, creativity with a hint of chaos and randomness of the multiverse have joined in arms, in philosophies to forum the new proxies, Immersed By Diversity, their goal? Purpose, find, document, all senses, pleasures far beyond the sculpt of ones imagination.." - hell i'd even drink a sip of whiskey and do a voice narration if need be! The challenge is the Doomguards Trio as well as the other two, but i think a few of us can brain storm, and brain storm hard, until thunder rolls up and consumes the states.