Just Some Discussion

[*Mr_Otyugh]

So I've been thinking of how to further help the player population matters, and I already have a good few projects going on. But there's another one that I'd want to look into, more so in a support fashion than in a proactive "do all the work" fashion. And that is the idea of supporting proactive roleplay, now I don't have a ready model in my mind or how'd it work in practice, hence the topic.

Let me explain my thought process a little: Events are great, but they aren't cost-effective when it comes to keeping players logged in. They are temporary happenings that may be once over deal and the end of interaction soon after. Now don't get me wrong, I dont' want there to be less events, more would be awesome as well, and our dedicated EMs are doing a great job...

Instead what I think we're lacking is player characters having engaging plotting around, there's always some happening of course, and I'm not doing any kind of blame game at all, but it seems to have gone less frequent in comparison to what it used to be. And I'd hope to encourage, reward, help, support... whatever would help to get the ball rolling again. So if there are some plots or ambitions some characters have been wanting to work on, I'd like to hear about them and see if we can work something out.

[*witchinghour]

Well you are right, events aren't cost effective to keep players on after they're done. I've noticed in my long attempts to stay on the server to give it population, players often log in specifically for events and off again, or log in to see whose on, and log off again.

I wouldn't say exactly they're lacking engaged plotting. What I see is people, both DMs and a good amount of players, are lacking any initiative to do or start anything. You can't even start a plot without even interacting with other people, within reasons of rping your character. And it is hard to set goals and ambitions for a character when it appears as nothing will change, or will change in a long time to which people lose interest, or it mysteriously drops off the face of the server.

It is, however, not the players' job to come up with all the plots. It is their job for their characters to keep character goals and ambitions, and in achieving those goals and ambitions through initiative, is how their, and other's, rp chains start. And I say this as a player who does have a fairly hard time trying to initiate some rp.

It is the DMs and EMs jobs to have their plots and events. Overseeing a whole rp chain that could stem off and into a character's. They give the characters meaning through more rp and (hopefully) allow the character to impact the setting around them. But having been an EM myself, I know it can be hard to think of something good to do, and player requests made my day. (Seriously! Someone go request something if you want it that bad! Its part of the initiative! But EMs and DMs shouldn't rely on requests alone.) And as from a previous EM perspective, I know people are busy, but from a player perspective, it seems a bit more of a ghost town

Without either player or DM initiative, the world has become static, and I think that is what might be keeping our playerbase low. Our last IC faction post was a month ago, our last major changes to setting was the Harmonium being removed from the Bazaar (A year ago), and the winter fey blowing up the bazaar (about half a year now?). The EMs do a wonderful job with their plots and campaigns and smaller scale events, but thats really most they can do right now, not quite able to make a bigger shock and shake event/series on Sigil or the factions themselves.

Sitting around waiting for change, is not going to bring the change being sought. To which, I agree with giving support and rewards for getting the ball rolling again. Through actual items, to advice, or better yet, to impact from actions.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I agree almost completely, the only minute clarification to my original post is that I think current situation is a sum of many small things. There's no universal single fix, which is why I'm making some efforts on as varied spectrum as I can, but also keeping in mind that I still operate with a finite time and can't really personally make/run agendas/ambitions for other players characters. What I can do is try to support them as best as I can. Hence this topic.

Of course the most difficult thing is to try to remain consistent even when the opportunities are ever fewer. It's kind of a catch-22. Utilizing forums more probably would help, even if I know some people are practically allergic to it. :lol:

[*Darkrob]

One thing I still hear about (rightly or wrongly) is the constant existence of cliques that make it difficult for many people to join or RP with. Now IÂ’m not going to agree nor disagree with the view that these things exist or are problems but I had thought of a possible way to open things up, maybe even ideas and plots.

Why donÂ’t we try to play away from our solid friend base for a month? You knowÂ… the players we always hook up with when we log in. The ones weÂ’re most familiar with and where all our plots are intertwined with? Why not have a 30 day period (not mandatory or enforced or anything) where when we log in, we make a concerted effort to step out of our usual groups and hook up with players (even seasoned ones) we donÂ’t usually play with (other than idle, random RP)? Force ourselves to not join up to grind or RP with the usual partners and invite someone we donÂ’t usually hang with?

Not only would this allow some other ‘lesser’ known players/characters the chance to get comfortable with others, it would generate new plots and connections for the older players who’re set in their way. Yes, I understand that many players already try to do this but if we all just gave it a try at the same time, it might go a long way to creating a more inviting and inclusive atmosphere and might even allow some people to make new friends along the way.

Just a thoughtÂ…

[*Pellease]

This! ^^^^^^

I logged in to write about just this (cliques) but Darkrob has done much better and given an actual solution.

The number one complaint I hear from people is that the server has its cliches and they can't find anyone to RP or run with. It doesn't help that some of the events feel like this too. Often times when I see an EM running an event it's the same characters in the event areas over and over.

The forums don't help this impression when people announce they're leaving. Those of us not in the know end up hearing very little of what actually happened. Instead there's a post about going, some people wish them luck and often times someone sends a rather hostile adios. This only makes things seem even more clique.

I don't imagine the NWN2 community is going to grow much. So the community already has a small pool to recruit from. If we burn too many bridges. . . well we'll just end up playing by ourselves.

Which brings about the true question. If there are cliques, do they care if the server grows? If one has their friends and an EM or two there's little motivation to care whether the server itself grows beyond their friend circle.

If we all care, we should do as Darkrob suggests and mix things up.

[*Hydra]

Darkrob has a point, but I would just use caution before you call people that, it's a tendency everyone has and getting out of your zone of comfort takes some efforts, also EMs/DMs shouldn't lock characters into event loops or long lasting campaigns because they usually favor the formation of cliques and lack of engagement with the rest of the server. I'll also add that seasoned players should have at least one alternative character to play that is different from their main, so they can meet others and interact differently or just take a break from time to time.

[*Taihou]

Overally would like to express my solidarity with Pellease and Darkrob.

Also some of my thoughts on topic:

Well, I indeed had noticed, that there are several cliques of players, who play mostly with each other. I would even say many of such groups are acting rather hostile towards those, who would wish to meddle/get in between/join. In better cases one's RP simply gets ignored, like thine character greets other one in the street and in response gets empty void. I will be honest with you (as I always am), sometimes it makes me have hard time suppressing a wish to RP something un-ignorable, like slapping, bashing, bumping into or punching, just to see, if that gets ignored too. Only thing what stops me is that most of my characters would never do such a thing IC.

And this is the other side of this same coin: I realize, that my own characters in general are personality-vise introverts, who need to be approached and asked by others to begin interaction, instead of being "heeey, wazzzup!" types. And other characters around either are just as introverted as mine, or simply choose to ignore for whatever IC or OOC reason (and if in case of some I know exactly, that we have strong disagreements in certain views on life/game/etc, then others leave me completely clueless of any reasons for potential dislike).

And also one thought, that came to mind is, that some people, who could potentially have had a good time playing together, if their characters had any common grounds, will not, because situation is the opposite and they play characters, who simply IC-ly have more reasons to hate each other than not and consequently those players often happen to be either single-character players or single-concept character player and thus they can not play together because ICly adequate course of events should have inevitably lead to them cutting each others heads off and as more often, than not at least one party does not wish that to happen, they either do not interact with potential nemesis, or sit in "safe zone" (for example some of my characters would like to see Argent dead, but that one never leaves Sigil or even better case: other of mines would love to see Rhistel Aidan's head on pike, but that hikikomori does not even leave his own house. In both cases I have no reasons to hold anything against players and would have gladly played with them if they played something else, than their favourites).

Also, what I noticed, it is somehow strange, how sometimes some players return their old characters (or even a player returns to server) and they encounter thine, whom IC-wise they had some long, interesting and complicated common history and whom again IC-ly (or OOCly) they have not seen "for ages", react to their old acquentances. Guess how? - Correct. They act like they see them for firs... oh who am I kidding? They act like they do not even see them.

[*DigitalDragoon]

As a general reminder. No one is required to take up rp or conflict they don't want to and insulting people for minding their own business is generally poor form. I have seen an alarming trend in people trying to police other players rp. Which is just tiring for all parties involved and cultivates a hostile atmosphere that does not benefit the setting or attract the interest of new players. If a given group does not wish to hang out. Find others who are interested in pursuing a narrative willingly.

This extends a bit mechanically too. There seems to be this recent spike in abnormally restrictive character creation options (Like alignment locking half-breed templates). We've also lost a few of our more unique races to overhauls that see the class list mired in dozens of single race PRCs. It seems to detract from the open and relaxed atmosphere which saw us as one of the most popular servers only a few years ago.

I agree with Mr. O that player driven rp is crucial to keeping the server going, but such rp can only happen when the parties work toward a collaborative narrative. We have to take some responsibility in cultivating a friendly and open community culture.

[*Taihou]

Of course, I by no means support insulting people (unless that is constructive criticism, that is labled "insulting" due to one's butthurt), but nevertheless should reply to this so-called general and so-called reminder.

On RP-oriented servers there is general principle, that a character takes responsibility for their actions.
If he does not take responsibility, It is god-moding and/or griefering (which is clearly forbidden by rules here as well as on any other worthy RP server), because by refusing to take responsibility for their actions one refuses to accept ICly adequate reaction and/or countermeasures to those actions, thus playing their character as invincible, in social meaning. No, clearly if one character does something, that draws the wrath of the other it, he can not just say "I do not want to play conflicts".

[*Lucadia]

If you see the same characters joining in on events then perhaps you should ask your self what the player is doing to be included then an assumption they are best buds with the EM or in a clique. That perhaps the character has goals, a reason to pursue, the player has innative.

Pointing fingers is only going to alianate people, even long time veterns from being able enjoy them selves. You must remember that this game and the free time provided by players and staff alike is volunteer., here for the fun.

A word about Ems that provide events, they often spread out what they do with the playerbase. It does not mean every event is designed for every character archetype out there and sometimes it takes the players needing to invent their own goals for staying with an event that is provided. Or reaching out and requesting a narative that others can share with you.

The last few open events I been to, It was more a mass of collective strangers all trying be center stage for the one providing an event and not interacting with their fellow players. I dont know how often i just see silence of one pc emoting an action and others do their own. That void in rp, not acklowleging things are going on around you can make it a chore to login and wonder why your providing your time when you do the same thing solo.