Magical Beast Casting

[*coyotesage]

This came up in another thread, but to not derail that thread, I decided to ask the question here. And, note, I in no way mind Magical Beats being able to cast spells. I was just hoping someone could provide an answer to my question which is...

Can Magical Beats, in the pen and paper version of D&D, cast spells that require somatic components? I can't seem to find anything that confirms or denies this. I've heard several opinions that say they can, but I actually want a source that verifies that.

I believe, that by D&D 3.0 standards, they cannot. By 3.5 standards they would be able to, since the only requirement is "being able to gesture", as opposed to the 3.0 requirement of "gesturing with human like hands".

If anyone can provide an official link that describes the rule for either 3.0 or 3.5 I would appreciate it...I've looked and I can't seem to find one. :blink:

[*Neethanial]

Many magical beasts have spell like abilities, provided they have the mental scores to justify them. Seeing as how druids can learn natural spell to cast when in beast forms, it would suggest no reason to think that an intelligent creature who was born to such a limitation wouldn't develop a similar ability naturally.

[*Ariella]

A lot of magical beasts like the winter wolf can talk even though their physiology wouldn't support it, and well they are magical beasts. Its not really a stretch, i would recommend looking up a list of magical beasts and seeing if any have caster levels or a Favored class to match.

[*Lucadia]

Androsphinx 6th lvl Cleric Magical Beast 12 +5 2 9 11 SRD
Aranea 3rd lvl Sorcerer Magical Beast 3 +4 4 4bb SRD
Arcanist Varrangoin 9th lvl Wizard Magical Beast 8 ? 7 11 — FF
Chronotyryn 12th lvl Sorcerer Magical Beast 17 ? 6 19 — FF
Lammasu 7th lvl Cleric Magical Beast 7 +5 8 5 SRD
Spirit of the Air 7th lvl Cleric Magical Beast 11 ? 6 11 — FF

something like this? Im not sure how many of these are correct, it was part of a compilation of monsters with innate spellcasting.

[*Miraie]

I think it may be a design issue as well. Perhaps the people in charge of spellcasting did not think that anyone important could ever be something else than a creature with human hands. Regardless, it is possible to conceive multiple traditions of spellcasting, each tapping the same Weave in a distinctly unique way that supports the culture and physical attributes of the beings that subscribe to the tradition. In that sense, a loud shout from a bard could easily be a menacing growl from a sentient wolf who taps into a similar form of magic. Also, dragons.

[*SyntheticRose]

There being a 'weave' at all is a Toril assumption.

Regardless, there is a way around it so long as Natural Spell and Still Spell exist. As far as wizardry goes, no, a wolf paw is not capable of forming the requisite twisting of fingers to represent "Ricardo's Fourth Invocative." Wizardry and its formulae are a Human or Elven construction in most settings.

For classes where the somatic doesn't matter as long as there ~is~ one, like sorcerers and any divine / invocation-based classes? Go for it.

I would say that magickal beast wizards without five-fingered hands would need Still Spell, while other classes could cast normally in the shape in which they learned their magick. The reason for this is that wizardry ~is~ an exact science. The fireball is created because the wizard performed a specific, exact gesture and recited a specific, exact spell. Change the gesture, change the spell.

[*Neethanial]

I'd have to agree with that. Wizardry is never an innate thing, kind of like being a monk is a learned/taught/studied discipline. A magical beast wizard just wouldn't make sense unless they started as a familiar (eg. imps). Any kind of humanoid transformation would make this more conceivable, though still a stretch.
Point - almost every innate spellcaster in the books that I've seen are sorcerers or druids... or both :P

[*Whitefly]

It depends on the method of casting. Like Phaerimm magic, for instance, requires four arms o.O; Meanwhile, other forms of casting require dancing or bloodletting, or other weird stuff. I don't think it's far fetched at all to suggest a Winter Wolf might be able to cast with its own variant of somatic component.

[*coyotesage]

In theory most creatures can learn to cast in their natural forms.

Is there a rule somewhere that states that though? I can't find one. The game was designed for humanoids, and so the only rules I can find pertain to humanoids. I don't want supposition, but an actual hard game rule written down from an official source.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview ... components

Verbal (V)
A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell with a verbal component that he or she tries to cast.

Somatic (S)
A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#naturalSpell

Natural Spell [General]
Prerequisites
Wis 13, wild shape ability.

Benefit
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilit ... ernateForm

The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.

Putting all of that together, you'll kind of get an indication that humanlike hands and intelligible speech are requirements for magic that require verbal and/or somatic components.

There is however concept of spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilit ... eAbilities

These are traits assigned to magical beasts ^{(winter wolves, unicorns, although also pretty much any other species like dragons, demons etc.)}, and they require no verbal or somatic components to function, which again kind of supports the idea that you need hands and intelligible languages to cast spells unless it's a natural magical trait to the species. It also adds in the end "Some creatures are actually sorcerers of a sort. They cast arcane spells as sorcerers do, using components when required. In fact, an individual creature could have some spell-like abilities and also cast other spells as a sorcerer."