Idea: Optional Permadeath

[*redgolem]

Here's an idea that I think would add some spice for those who like it rough and gritty:

Optional Permadeath
Granted that many do not like permadeath, it does add some serious gameplay/RP/realism value having permanent consequences to your character's actions. Why not make this an elective option for those who want it?

Implementation
In the server lobby (that red-tiled room), add a conversation branch to that grim-reaper-looking guy (the one who offers character deletions and styx water), letting you turn on the permadeath option for your character, and it can't be turned off, except by DMs.

If you die, having the permadeath option:

1. No dustmen will come and drag you off to the mortuary you when you die.

2. If you try to respawn, you'll get teleported to the server lobby, but will be unable to leave the lobby to enter Sigil. You're stuck there permanently, unless a DM bails you out with good reason. (watch out for autofollow tricks)

3. If the server reboots or crashes after you've died, you still won't be able to leave the server lobby. (You can talk to the death guy to get the character deleted though!)

4. Your soul is lost after you die and can't be raised from the dead with a coin, scroll, or spell. (Only DMs can raise you.)

5. You also lose all your gear (won't be much use to you now).

Benefits of having the permadeath option:

1. You do get an extra +10% XP bonus.

2. More incentive to RP the character with regard to consequences and risk.

3. Makes things more heart-pounding and dangerous.

4. More low level characters may be around.

Variants on permadeath:

A. Zombie variant: You can respawn, but get your XP reset to 0, lose all your items, and get a permanent polymorph into a zombie or other random undead. (still offers a lot of RP possibilities)

B. Respawn token variant: You start the game with 3 respawn tokens, and use up one every time you respawn, and then you are permanently dead when you run out of them. This makes things a bit more lenient than just flat-out 1-life-to-live permadeath. DMs could award respawn tokens for quests/RP.

[*Knightoftheradish]

I've played on a server where every time you died you lost a permanent con point.

[*Spehss Mehreen]

Honestly, I don't like Permadeath at all, unless it's optional. Providing it stays optional, I don't mind.

[*Lost and not Found]

I think the server already has option for the "Optional Permadeath". All characters should have a tool in their inventory that allows them to grant themselves some temporal ability score damage. At least we used to have, a while back, when I started playing on this server. And you can even delete your own character.


Anyhow; as for the listed benefits of having the permadeath option:

1. You do get an extra +10% XP bonus - Which would be most likely used by the "Epic Level Characters" who are no longer likely to perish. I know how one of my character is only likely to die if there is a DM actively trying to kill him.

2. More incentive to RP the character with regard to consequences and risk - Perhaps I remain as an eternal pessimist, but I would argue that the incentive for the permadeath players would not swing their keeness towards role-playing to any direction.

3. Makes things more heart-pounding and dangerous - With players writing Personal Messages, Tells and Forum Posts, complaining how the game performed an unfair trick.

4. More low level characters may be around - To quote one of Cryptc's catch phrases, to some extend, "Grinders grind to level 30, after that they usually have three options infront of them, 1: Start role-playing, 2: Become bored with the server, 3: Start a new character to grind to level 30, again. Thus, yes, we might get some new low level characters once here and there.

[*Ceremorph]

There's always one easy way to play permadeath.

You die? You stop playing that character. And it's entirely... optional!

:D

[*redgolem]

In response to Lost and Not Found:

Thanks for sharing. Here are my thoughts to your responses.

I think the server already has option for the "Optional Permadeath". All characters should have a tool in their inventory that allows them to grant themselves some temporal ability score damage. At least we used to have, a while back, when I started playing on this server. And you can even delete your own character.

Some really remarkable players may be able to do that, but how many players would pass the real-life will save to delete the character they've spent so many hours playing, after an accidental death or death caused by overconfidence, especially when their party members are peer pressuring them and counting on them to return? I know that as a low-will-save player, I would not pass that will save when the time comes, especially when I have a big investment towards a character.

However, committing to the permadeath in advance, and just *knowing* that I don't even have the option for respawning even if I wanted it later, changes the way I play, in good way with regards to RP and realism. It makes the character that has survived longer even more dear and alive to me. It makes it a bigger accomplishment and challenge as well. Anyone can just grind their way up to high levels if they are essentially immortal. Losing that immortality makes things a lot more fun IMHO. It's not something for everyone, especially not for grinders and hack/slashers.

1. You do get an extra +10% XP bonus - Which would be most likely used by the "Epic Level Characters" who are no longer likely to perish. I know how one of my character is only likely to die if there is a DM actively trying to kill him.

Easy, remove the bonus for epic level characters who are no longer likely to perish. Or far better - make epic areas far more challenging and less predictable so that they epic level characters and old players can actually be challenged and have the risk of dying without DM intervention?

2. More incentive to RP the character with regard to consequences and risk - Perhaps I remain as an eternal pessimist, but I would argue that the incentive for the permadeath players would not swing their keeness towards role-playing to any direction.

How so? They wouldn't be rushing off to die as much and it would help those who take the permadeath option to treat death more seriously. This helps those who are not as intrinsically uber-RPer to value their life and be more afraid of dying, as their character probably would.

Just read this other thread. Not everyone is a consummate roleplayer (I'm certainly not), and some would like the help that permadeath offers them at being better RPers and taking it more seriously.

3. Makes things more heart-pounding and dangerous - With players writing Personal Messages, Tells and Forum Posts, complaining how the game performed an unfair trick.

Have a disclaimer - it is a "use at your own risk". But really, have you ever played on a permadeath server? The gameplay value of permadeath far outweighs the complaints. It gives the player a much higher real stake and consequence. When being chased by overwhelming mobs and having only a few HP left, it gives you an incentive to actually run (and pray that you get away), rather than just staying and accepting a small hit in XP/gold. That last time I had a physically heart-pounding sweat-inducing moment playing NWN was on a permadeath server, on a character I had spent a lot of time on. This gives players the option of having that permadeath experience without the server being a permadeath server.

4. More low level characters may be around - To quote one of Cryptc's catch phrases, to some extend, "Grinders grind to level 30, after that they usually have three options infront of them, 1: Start role-playing, 2: Become bored with the server, 3: Start a new character to grind to level 30, again. Thus, yes, we might get some new low level characters once here and there.

So what? If grinders want to grind, they can grind. I doubt grinders would choose an optional permadeath - it sure makes getting to level 30 a lot harder. Although, it would make it more rewarding for them to get to level 30 though if they chose the permadeath option. Bragging rights all around.

[*redgolem]

There's always one easy way to play permadeath.

You die? You stop playing that character. And it's entirely... optional!

:D

You call that easy? Mechanically it is. But psychologically, it very very very difficult.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

It is easy, and that is the way it will remain as optional. Only way it is difficult is when the death seems "unfair" to the player, which generally is game mechanical death rather than roleplay death. Also when it seems "unfair" to player, it is the time players complain, or worse, get bored of playing and/or move elsewhere.

[*chengc02]

Sounds elitism to me and that's the least thing I want to see, forcing people to fit into one's standard or perish...

Making the epic area harder is just a punishment to lesser and common build. Not everyone's build is so superior...

Going down this route the down side is going to be greater than the up side.

Optional works fine for me.

[*cryptc]

No... although in theory it sounds good, there are too many accidental deaths possible (getting disconnected in mid battle, idiot player running around in town killing everyone, etc)... so it would be a major headache to dm's, to the point where I'd say "any permadeath is to be raised by dm if they ask", and that again means the whole purpose has vanished.

If you want permadeath, do it with your own honor instead... if you die, don't play the character anymore.