I don't really understand all the hate for 4ed, but maybe that's because I only started playing tabletop a couple months ago. (playing a mix between 3.0 and 3.5, I think that's what my friends called it)
4ed is a different system. That doesn't mean it's necissarily bad. Besides, fighters always complain about being able to do nothing but attack, while magic users can summon celestial superbeings, etc. So, this system allows them to do some other things from what I understand.
I like change ups now and then. Playing the same old system for years sounds boring to me.
I Bought Some 4e Books
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*cryptc
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It's not bad since it's different, it's bad because it's bad :PLittleMissWonderful,Jul 20 2010 wrote: I don't really understand all the hate for 4ed, but maybe that's because I only started playing tabletop a couple months ago. (playing a mix between 3.0 and 3.5, I think that's what my friends called it)
4ed is a different system. That doesn't mean it's necissarily bad. Besides, fighters always complain about being able to do nothing but attack, while magic users can summon celestial superbeings, etc. So, this system allows them to do some other things from what I understand.
I like change ups now and then. Playing the same old system for years sounds boring to me.
I went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition (cautiously), but I found 3ed to be superior and very smooth (well ok maybe except grappling)... but 4ed I just find boring and lifeless... the gamebalance is improved, but to the effect that most characters are mostly the same... bleh...
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*Product of Void
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I think they have lost direction especially when they start borrowing from blizzard instead of the other way around. haha.
then again original Dnd did a lot of theft like hobbits I mean HALFLINGS.
big change between 2e and 3e was a lot more freedom in character creation, easier to understand saves, and things made sense until level 21.
psonic handbook was even better due to they had spell point system going were you cap with level of character not spell.
A level thirty spell vs level 20 means something there...it freak'n hurts. Vs the hard limit spells have in nwn or players handbook.
I also think requiring feats for knockdown/disarm/weapon finesse are silly. Elementary kids know how to knock each other down or knock school books out of hands pretty well. Seems more a tatic that a feat could enhance but all should be able too.
Then this....select a class....limit....select paragon ...limit. Then a bunch of attempts to make wisdom/chrisma useful stats
The interchange able dex/int for ac is rather comical so wizards get high ac due to being old and smart. That frail old fart with a walker might not move quick but knows how to move out the way and toss a fireball.
as well as dex/int for reflex saves.
then again original Dnd did a lot of theft like hobbits I mean HALFLINGS.
big change between 2e and 3e was a lot more freedom in character creation, easier to understand saves, and things made sense until level 21.
psonic handbook was even better due to they had spell point system going were you cap with level of character not spell.
A level thirty spell vs level 20 means something there...it freak'n hurts. Vs the hard limit spells have in nwn or players handbook.
I also think requiring feats for knockdown/disarm/weapon finesse are silly. Elementary kids know how to knock each other down or knock school books out of hands pretty well. Seems more a tatic that a feat could enhance but all should be able too.
Then this....select a class....limit....select paragon ...limit. Then a bunch of attempts to make wisdom/chrisma useful stats
The interchange able dex/int for ac is rather comical so wizards get high ac due to being old and smart. That frail old fart with a walker might not move quick but knows how to move out the way and toss a fireball.
as well as dex/int for reflex saves.
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*Product of Void
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my only question is....who did crack?
2{w} 3{w} no spell listing? can only choose one? did they make wizards into sorcerers?
a level 30 rogue gets 5d6 sneak attack?
I have only skimmed through it but so far seems extremely different then 3.5
will keep trying to decode stuff and figure it out but seems rather limited no multi classing and set PRC's for classes. Everything has special features with uses per will, day, encounter, and utility (utility makes no sense to me perhaps when I get to combat chapter. So far I do not know how often you can use utility,
Kinda reminds me of diablo were you level up and get special features. Wow from what I have seen also allows like a PRC for set classes so perhaps someone was playing lots of wow when they designed it.
what does anyone else think of 4e? any thoughts or advice?
2{w} 3{w} no spell listing? can only choose one? did they make wizards into sorcerers?
a level 30 rogue gets 5d6 sneak attack?
I have only skimmed through it but so far seems extremely different then 3.5
will keep trying to decode stuff and figure it out but seems rather limited no multi classing and set PRC's for classes. Everything has special features with uses per will, day, encounter, and utility (utility makes no sense to me perhaps when I get to combat chapter. So far I do not know how often you can use utility,
Kinda reminds me of diablo were you level up and get special features. Wow from what I have seen also allows like a PRC for set classes so perhaps someone was playing lots of wow when they designed it.
what does anyone else think of 4e? any thoughts or advice?
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*Mr_Otyugh
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Burn it in holy ground, then fill the remnants with holy water, sacrifice a goat. Buy earlier edition books until 5th edition comes. <,<Product of Void,Jul 20 2010 wrote: what does anyone else think of 4e? any thoughts or advice?
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*Mausman
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4th basicly was made into a computer game in pnp form. You hit the nail on head when making comparison to Diablo and WoW.
I have to agree with Mr O here...might have to purge and cleanse the store where you bought it as well...for the Emperor...
I have to agree with Mr O here...might have to purge and cleanse the store where you bought it as well...for the Emperor...
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*sstiletto
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From what I've seen, it actually looks more like Dragon Age.
But IMHO, what they've really done is dumb it down. YES, perhaps they've managed to make it "more accessible" to first-time players (I could only imagine the horror at one of these sitting down with a gaming group that's been together for years playing 3.5e and having to deal with the concept of literally hundreds of prestige classes!), but on the other hand, as PoV seems to be intimating, they've sort of nerfed the entire system, and given players less chance of total character customization.
What bothers me more than anything, however, is the total rearrangement of canon cosmology. Eladrins are just another race now? Devas and Aasimar are the same thing? And let's not even START with the changes they shoved down the throat of the Forgotten Realms.
4e is the primary reason I hope and pray they DON'T make a Neverwinter Nights 3... because then we'd wind up having to use those rules.
But IMHO, what they've really done is dumb it down. YES, perhaps they've managed to make it "more accessible" to first-time players (I could only imagine the horror at one of these sitting down with a gaming group that's been together for years playing 3.5e and having to deal with the concept of literally hundreds of prestige classes!), but on the other hand, as PoV seems to be intimating, they've sort of nerfed the entire system, and given players less chance of total character customization.
What bothers me more than anything, however, is the total rearrangement of canon cosmology. Eladrins are just another race now? Devas and Aasimar are the same thing? And let's not even START with the changes they shoved down the throat of the Forgotten Realms.
4e is the primary reason I hope and pray they DON'T make a Neverwinter Nights 3... because then we'd wind up having to use those rules.
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*Product of Void
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oh I own a bunch of 2e and 3e and 3.5e
I figured they would try to make it simpler......this is not simpler. will probably have to go to wiki to try to decode a bunch of stuff the descriptions mean nothing.
so far its not something I would play though is interesting to read.
I think I even got my hands on 1st edition stuff too....hehe.
was hoping they learned something from the psionic handbooks 3.0 and 3.5 it had lots of promise to it very interesting ideas.
I figured they would try to make it simpler......this is not simpler. will probably have to go to wiki to try to decode a bunch of stuff the descriptions mean nothing.
so far its not something I would play though is interesting to read.
I think I even got my hands on 1st edition stuff too....hehe.
was hoping they learned something from the psionic handbooks 3.0 and 3.5 it had lots of promise to it very interesting ideas.
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*cryptc
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Also bury the remains and salt the earth so they are sure not to come backMr_Otyugh,Jul 20 2010 wrote:Burn it in holy ground, then fill the remnants with holy water, sacrifice a goat. Buy earlier edition books until 5th edition comes. <,<Product of Void,Jul 20 2010 wrote: what does anyone else think of 4e? any thoughts or advice?
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*Kree
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The way they revised the cosmology, races, killed the wonderful and diverse deities and did to the world of Toril in general just physically pains me. I'm ignoring that so called lore. As far as I'm concerned, nothing happened and everything's the way it ought to be.Product of Void,Jul 20 2010 wrote:
what does anyone else think of 4e? any thoughts or advice?
These 4th edition books operate on a completely different game, describing a completely different world with completely different rules that just happens to share some names. It's like those Stargate episodes where they'd end up in alternate realities due to solar flares and whatnot.
Apophis didn't enslave Earth! Go home, guys!