She turns to Mover Cass.
"As you see it is not me that is unwilling to cooperate."
Harmonium Meeting
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*LiquidDreamer
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"Shamus, the end result here is to create a cooperative unit using all three. You will not get there if you are abrasive and confrontational over every talking point.
Yes, Caterina that is exactly what I'm looking for. A liaison directly with a judge. It cuts out needless paper work till after the fact for official documentation and most importantly reduces the chances of the Anarchists catching wind of what we are doing.
And good to see you Measure Cryptbane please take a seat. We are in the middle of discussing how we are going to pull this off. In an answer to your point, yes this unit was primarily thought of to counter the Anarchist threat. But there are other threats that this unit will be capable of dealing with. So, we discuss the legality and ethics of doing this.
Miss Caterina there seems to think we want to bend and bribe the law to conform to our views however Shamus isn't helping with his oppressive counter points. What we in the upper ranks are shooting for here is a blend of the three factions into one tactical unit capable to responding to spontaneous threats to either of the three factions, rather than having one of us respond to it ourselves, which leaves the other two faction in the dark about the details since we all work together in keeping law and order within Sigil. I'm talking serious threats, not something the factions can in fact handle on their own"
Yes, Caterina that is exactly what I'm looking for. A liaison directly with a judge. It cuts out needless paper work till after the fact for official documentation and most importantly reduces the chances of the Anarchists catching wind of what we are doing.
And good to see you Measure Cryptbane please take a seat. We are in the middle of discussing how we are going to pull this off. In an answer to your point, yes this unit was primarily thought of to counter the Anarchist threat. But there are other threats that this unit will be capable of dealing with. So, we discuss the legality and ethics of doing this.
Miss Caterina there seems to think we want to bend and bribe the law to conform to our views however Shamus isn't helping with his oppressive counter points. What we in the upper ranks are shooting for here is a blend of the three factions into one tactical unit capable to responding to spontaneous threats to either of the three factions, rather than having one of us respond to it ourselves, which leaves the other two faction in the dark about the details since we all work together in keeping law and order within Sigil. I'm talking serious threats, not something the factions can in fact handle on their own"
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Caterina is of course not crass enough to comment as the Mover rebukes Shamus but a smile crosses her lips. It is gone quickly and she is the image of professionalism once more.
"I thank you for your reasoned response in the light of heated debate Mover, and I accept your assurances that you and your faction are acting in the best interests of the law. In the interests of greater cooperation amongst the Triad there are members of both the Red Death and your own faction I could highly recommend as part of any cross faction collation."
"I thank you for your reasoned response in the light of heated debate Mover, and I accept your assurances that you and your faction are acting in the best interests of the law. In the interests of greater cooperation amongst the Triad there are members of both the Red Death and your own faction I could highly recommend as part of any cross faction collation."
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*LiquidDreamer
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"A Judge in our pocket, figuratively... not a literally translation. We need a judge that sympathizes with our goal. Everything will be straight and by the book. But a Judge that knows the conditions in which our actions are carried out in. I'm not talking about going above or around the law but having it there as we carry out our goal. " Move Cass responds while the two debate.
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*WhenWizardsWar
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Suddenly a book is slammed on a table, the sound echoing through the room. Measure One Cryptbane had snuck in a few moments to late, (to which he had legimiate reason befititng his station as a measure).
The book he slammed on the table would be recognised as the "Harmonium Primer" that every soldier in the organizartion lives and dies by.
He looks at the mover for a moment.
"Forgive me for speaking out of turn but this needs to be said" he says to the mover.
"This debating is pointless, there is no need to bang out heads together over who needs to allow who to do what or to whom". He says calmly as he lifts the book and walks toward the group seated together where he sets the book on meeting table, more gently this time.
"We have a problem, the revolutionary league,,we all know this" he says calmly and in a firm voice.
"The mercy killers and guvners need to realize something that has been forgotten lately, washed away by modern ideals of morality and right and wrong" he taps his fingers on the "big red book".
"We are the Harmonium, our goal is to spread harmony to the multiverse and if it takes alittle war to achieve our goals then so be it" he taps the book again.
"No where does it say we need the guvners or the mercy killers approval to detain or "arrest" those who threaten our goals, we work with you out of consideration and because working with you often makes oils the gears to make them move more smoothly" he says calmly before looking the mercykiller and guvner representitivs in the eye.
"However, the Harmonium has never been oath bound by any legal writ or document that we MUST get your approval before under taking any operations that we deem prudent to spread Harmony across the multiverse, we CHOOSE to do so because it makes things abit easier, and lately everyone has mistaken this as an agreement not to act with out the others consent, which is false".
He looks at the mover for a moment.
"Forgive me sir but this also needs to be said I know im only a measure but ive been doing alot of reading on our doctrine and i can see now that it has been diluted and warped lately do to modern influences and beliefs". He looks back to the other faction representives.
"The guvners are the judges, the mercykillers are the administrators of punishment, we acknowledge this, it is why we have the triad, but you both need to understand, we are getting tired of being pushed around by the revolutionary league, the time has come for US to ACT, and you have no legal jurisdiction to stand in our way!. IF we need to crack down doors to remove those who threaten our administration of Harmony then you cannot throw legal red tape at us! If it needs to be done we WILL do it, the multiverse has always needed someone like us, and always will be, and it it takes a little war to move things along then so be it!".
He continues to tap the "big red book" on the table, this measure is clearly devoted to the Harmonium ways and if one reads through some of the big book they would find a lot of material that corresponds with his statements.
The book he slammed on the table would be recognised as the "Harmonium Primer" that every soldier in the organizartion lives and dies by.
He looks at the mover for a moment.
"Forgive me for speaking out of turn but this needs to be said" he says to the mover.
"This debating is pointless, there is no need to bang out heads together over who needs to allow who to do what or to whom". He says calmly as he lifts the book and walks toward the group seated together where he sets the book on meeting table, more gently this time.
"We have a problem, the revolutionary league,,we all know this" he says calmly and in a firm voice.
"The mercy killers and guvners need to realize something that has been forgotten lately, washed away by modern ideals of morality and right and wrong" he taps his fingers on the "big red book".
"We are the Harmonium, our goal is to spread harmony to the multiverse and if it takes alittle war to achieve our goals then so be it" he taps the book again.
"No where does it say we need the guvners or the mercy killers approval to detain or "arrest" those who threaten our goals, we work with you out of consideration and because working with you often makes oils the gears to make them move more smoothly" he says calmly before looking the mercykiller and guvner representitivs in the eye.
"However, the Harmonium has never been oath bound by any legal writ or document that we MUST get your approval before under taking any operations that we deem prudent to spread Harmony across the multiverse, we CHOOSE to do so because it makes things abit easier, and lately everyone has mistaken this as an agreement not to act with out the others consent, which is false".
He looks at the mover for a moment.
"Forgive me sir but this also needs to be said I know im only a measure but ive been doing alot of reading on our doctrine and i can see now that it has been diluted and warped lately do to modern influences and beliefs". He looks back to the other faction representives.
"The guvners are the judges, the mercykillers are the administrators of punishment, we acknowledge this, it is why we have the triad, but you both need to understand, we are getting tired of being pushed around by the revolutionary league, the time has come for US to ACT, and you have no legal jurisdiction to stand in our way!. IF we need to crack down doors to remove those who threaten our administration of Harmony then you cannot throw legal red tape at us! If it needs to be done we WILL do it, the multiverse has always needed someone like us, and always will be, and it it takes a little war to move things along then so be it!".
He continues to tap the "big red book" on the table, this measure is clearly devoted to the Harmonium ways and if one reads through some of the big book they would find a lot of material that corresponds with his statements.
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Caterina listens to the Mover and then to Cryptbanes bookslamming and sudden outburst. Eventually she replies.
"That is a very pretty looking book you have there, but it is filled with Harmonium regulation not Sigil's laws and that means outside of your faction it carries about as much weight as the war measures act that was waved around early. I have patiently stood here and borne with good grace every attempt to belittle the roll my faction has in the upholding of the law. The fact I have been asked to come here and you have asked for my help suggests you over estimate our own faction's position. In other parts of the multiverse you are the law, in Sigil you merely enforce it."
She turns to speak to the Mover directly.
"As there seems to be some confusion I will clarify my position.
I will work closely with a team you assemble. I will be on hand to provide warrants in a timely manner. I will offer the full support of the law. I will do so because as you say the Revolutionary League must be stamped out, and because I wish to prevent the death's of innocents.
I will not break the law for you I will not enable others to do so. I will expect those that I am working with to respect that and I will not have my own or my Faction's roll undermined.
I state my expectations like this so you are aware of what you are getting and I cannot be accused of misleading anyone. If this is acceptable to you then I will take you p on your offer. If not I believe I am done here."
"That is a very pretty looking book you have there, but it is filled with Harmonium regulation not Sigil's laws and that means outside of your faction it carries about as much weight as the war measures act that was waved around early. I have patiently stood here and borne with good grace every attempt to belittle the roll my faction has in the upholding of the law. The fact I have been asked to come here and you have asked for my help suggests you over estimate our own faction's position. In other parts of the multiverse you are the law, in Sigil you merely enforce it."
She turns to speak to the Mover directly.
"As there seems to be some confusion I will clarify my position.
I will work closely with a team you assemble. I will be on hand to provide warrants in a timely manner. I will offer the full support of the law. I will do so because as you say the Revolutionary League must be stamped out, and because I wish to prevent the death's of innocents.
I will not break the law for you I will not enable others to do so. I will expect those that I am working with to respect that and I will not have my own or my Faction's roll undermined.
I state my expectations like this so you are aware of what you are getting and I cannot be accused of misleading anyone. If this is acceptable to you then I will take you p on your offer. If not I believe I am done here."
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*Darkrob
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
..."In other parts of the multiverse you are the law, in Sigil you merely enforce it."
Shamus repeats the words quietly
"You are correct, Administrator, very correct. But if we were to cease doing so? If we merely moved to enforcing order instead of law... how strong would your law be then? It would be nothing. The law in this city is only as strong as those who enforce it. The Harmonium is that strength and without our willingness to die to maintain peace in this city... the Fraternity would be eliminated yet we would still thrive.
You are being asked to expedite things through the Fraternity. To cut through the red tape, to shelve the bureaucracy and to limit the bullshit forms in a timely manner so we can execute our duty, fight the Revolution, and still uphold the city's law. Surely you can see the need to hasten things in the courts. This can be done legally if you have the fortitude to do it. Are you able to do that?"
Shamus repeats the words quietly
"You are correct, Administrator, very correct. But if we were to cease doing so? If we merely moved to enforcing order instead of law... how strong would your law be then? It would be nothing. The law in this city is only as strong as those who enforce it. The Harmonium is that strength and without our willingness to die to maintain peace in this city... the Fraternity would be eliminated yet we would still thrive.
You are being asked to expedite things through the Fraternity. To cut through the red tape, to shelve the bureaucracy and to limit the bullshit forms in a timely manner so we can execute our duty, fight the Revolution, and still uphold the city's law. Surely you can see the need to hasten things in the courts. This can be done legally if you have the fortitude to do it. Are you able to do that?"
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Caterina looks over at Shamus and smiles.
"As the doomguard fulfilled this role before you so I doubt there will be a shortage of people who seem to realize what you fail to grasp and by you I mean you personally Notary, not your faction as a whole, whom I still have faith in. It is not might alone that gives you power but the legitimacy the law, or bullshit as you as you eloquently call it gives you. If you doubt me I will point the doomguard as an example.
You can keep asking me what I will do, I have already told you, time and again. You can continue to ask but my answer will not change. I have made clear to to your superior what I will do and what I will not do."
"As the doomguard fulfilled this role before you so I doubt there will be a shortage of people who seem to realize what you fail to grasp and by you I mean you personally Notary, not your faction as a whole, whom I still have faith in. It is not might alone that gives you power but the legitimacy the law, or bullshit as you as you eloquently call it gives you. If you doubt me I will point the doomguard as an example.
You can keep asking me what I will do, I have already told you, time and again. You can continue to ask but my answer will not change. I have made clear to to your superior what I will do and what I will not do."
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*Darkrob
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"Your opinion of me unimportant. I'm not here for your approval.
You have told us what you can do... vaguely... but you have not told us how you can do it. Must we wait 3 days to get a lawful warrant or can you do it in one? Must we file 16 papers for specific records or can you get it done in 5 pages? Will trials take 10 weeks to go to court or can you get them done in 2?
What, Administrator, can you do aside from blindly repeating you can help us within the law so long as the law isn't broken? Tell us how you can help us. Convince us that including the Fraternity is going to help us during these exercises."
You have told us what you can do... vaguely... but you have not told us how you can do it. Must we wait 3 days to get a lawful warrant or can you do it in one? Must we file 16 papers for specific records or can you get it done in 5 pages? Will trials take 10 weeks to go to court or can you get them done in 2?
What, Administrator, can you do aside from blindly repeating you can help us within the law so long as the law isn't broken? Tell us how you can help us. Convince us that including the Fraternity is going to help us during these exercises."
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"When I see say a timely fashion I mean a timely fashion. If you show probable cause for warrants then you will have them promptly. If you have solid evidence for trials then they will be conducted quickly. In short if you do your job properly I will be able to do mine.
However just as you do not need to prove yourself to me I do not need to justify my involvment here to you as it is the Mover who makes the decisions here and not you. Perhaps the Measure has a chapter in his pretty red book about chain of command that you could read."
However just as you do not need to prove yourself to me I do not need to justify my involvment here to you as it is the Mover who makes the decisions here and not you. Perhaps the Measure has a chapter in his pretty red book about chain of command that you could read."