((OCC disclaimer : Please do not take in account the post I did previously in the Sigis and deleted, there was a bit of misunderstanding since I mostly wanted to do it to justify my OCC absence and people reacted to it in an unexpected way, so here is the opposite :P. I'm still going to be busy and not ingame, until next week and will answer very slowly, things are really going to get in when the DMs do come back though, so be a little patient.)).
As the council assembled in the hall of speakers, Kala started to speak.
Factors, Sigilians. Today I stand before you to talk about the aftermath of the recent invasion. An invasion that is going to leave many scars for the years to come. Creatures of the Far Realm aren't an enemy we can rationalize, they propagate madness, a kind of disease that cannot be easily cured by clerics and only time and care, will restore the wounds and the losses we all have suffered. Hopefully with the combined forces of the factions, the threat was removed. Many have died defending our city, especially the members of the Triad of law.
But, it'll be foolish to also ignore the fact that the invaders stroke at our weaknesses : they embraced and perverted the madness at the Gatehouse, but they also committed an act even more twisted, by focusing on corrupting high ranked members of the Triad of law as well. For weeks, corrupted Harmonium members where able to occupy the gatehouse with armed forces using a possessed Guvner mandate. With this ability, they where able to send their own members there to get corrupted but also abduct people for the purpose of the invaders. She paused for a second Nothing was done, hierarchy and order locked them, those who where sane and wanted to act, where blocked because orders where given by higher ranked members. She paused again What about the Bleakers then ? The Bleaker aren't an army, they had people to take care of and they didn't had the strength to resist or fight against the harmonium despite they knew they where corrupted. This only came to a stop, when members of less law abiding factions stopped this madness, slaying the corrupted official leading the Gatehouse.
Also... how couldn't we not remember that other event, when the Mercykiller Factol herself, or at least her possessed body threatened the council of the Factols themselves, only stopped by the providiental intervention of the Dabus. A lot of the Mercykillers members where also used as fodder troops by the invaders, some where corrupted, others like the harmoniums simply followed orders of their superiors without asking questions. This explains why did the invaders concentrated on the Triad. Because order is the Triad's strength but also its weakness, they knew members of the Triad would follow commands, and easily commit themselves to be corrupted. I personally witnessed non-corrupted Mercykillers, turning against a Justicar who was doing her best to fight the invasion, because they where ordered to do so by a corrupted Factor. While there's no question members of the Triad fought bravely and gave their lives to protect us, there where many moments when they found themselves fighting their own comrades.
This leads me to ask you one question : should we allow this to happen again ? She paused for a second The Triad does have an immense power and many prerogatives within Sigil and these powers where exploited and in the most disastrous fashion She paused again A situation like the occupation of the Gatehouse could have been easily avoided if the Triad wasn't allowed to occupy a faction's hall without its consent, and the recent Harmonium lockdown of the Hall of Speakers also proves that this wasn't just an isolated event. The Triad serves the people of Sigil and obeys the will of the council, but the invasion and some recent abuses have let many of us to value of this statement.
We had many reports of Triad abuses, I was also victim of one myself, but the matter was hopefully treated quickly and efficiently by triad members I do trust, and the bad seeds corrected. I know triad members are doing a lot of efforts to correct their wrongs and are aware of the problems, but we cannot just live on promises, we want guarantees. We also want the violence to stop, we are tired of the bombings and the bullying in the Bazaar, that are bad for business. And the attitude of Triad members openly standing in uniform while off duty, bullying other faction members and begin targets of anarchists bombings, isn't helping either, quite the contrary. There have also been cases, where Mercykillers found themselves openly at odd with the Harmonium stepping over each other toes, in the bazaar but also behind the curtain among some high ranked officials. where rivalries are breeding. She turned to face the ranks of the Triad. This isn't what we expect of you.
Again, I couldn't deny that you aren't isn't trying to solve these issues. But we we cannot stand and wait for promises to be fulfilled, and due to the gravity of certain facts we cannot simply just make this whole case a courteous reminder to behave.
She turned again to have a look at the assembly, taking a paper What we need are effective reforms. and this is what I propose :
- In regards of the recent occupations of the Gatehouse and the Hall of Speakers by the Harmonium with the legal approval of the Guvners. We wish to remind that Triad members, nor any faction member is allowed in another faction halls, unless they've been invited. We also don't want to see such investigations in the future, the Triad shouldn't be allowed to put a Faction's building on lock-down as they see fit, without the explicit and legal permission of its high ranked members.
- If a crime happens within a faction territory, Triad members will have to cooperate with the said faction instead of taking the whole case for themselves.
- The Triad, as the upkeepers of Law and trusted handlers of all sensitive matters, should be forbidden from using independent proxies or prospective recruits to do their official work in their stead. Should they hire mercenaries like any faction, they should offer them a contract an pay them.
- Triad members should be forbidden to stand in public areas like Khazeet's bar in uniform when off duty, such actions have led to many necessary acts of violence by or against Triad members.
Kala then put down her paper and awaited the storm.
Speech In The Hall Of Speakers
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*Tomekk
- Posts: 855
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
//Well, if that's how we're going to play, then fine. Lets do this in turns, or else things will really get messy. As a side not, anyone who tries to interrupt my character's speech will probably be outshouted and told to sit down (Intimidate score 49)//
After Factor Emila's speech, a tall, hooded figure walks past Kala onto the main podium, dropping his cloak once there to reveal himself as Factor Ra'zeth of the Takers, wearing a fine, yet bulky set of obdurium platemail trimmed with bronze that shone from the light entering through the glass roof. He stands with the pride of a victorious warrior, and speaks with the confidence of a champion of the arenas... whether political or bloody.
"Respected councilmen, fellow factioneers, citizens of Sigil. I am very glad to have zhis opportunity to speak in the name of the Fated. I shall take naught much of your precious time, and get to zhe points straight away."
He added with a smirk, and began his speech.
"Over the past months, our fine city has been struck with many tragedies. Our homes were invaded by indescribable aliens from zhe Far Realm, our economy is suffering from zhe vast amount of tax evasion and zhe Bleakers and Signers were horribly insulted and invaded by zhe Triad of Law. Our 'guardians', zhis Triad of Guvners, Mercykillers and to a lesser degree zhe Harmonium have failed this city time and time again in zhe recent events.
I must ask you... do we want to be protected and governed by people who bicker amongst zhemselves endlessly, get deadlocked into dangerous passivity by a simple lack of orders and are no less devoid of corruption zhan any other chaotic Faction? Let me explain.
Zhe Guvners seek to attain naut just more power, but absolute power over our fates. Zhey refuse our right to govern our own faction's security autonomously and would seek zhis power to none other than zhemselves. Zhey refused our suggestions to involve zhe entire council on matters as sensitive as zhis, and went as far as want to take away the Harmonioum's right to a warrant!"
He turns to the Harmonium representatives, and adressess them.
"Is zhat what you call harmonious, noble Factol Sarin? To be denied your rights and governed by power-mongerers? Or to be allied with zhose who claim to uphold Justice, yet just as easily accept abyssal power into zheir ranks?"
He then shifts his attention to the Mercykillers, fearlessly pointing at the,
"Yes, you. Zhe Mercykillers. Once a respected and feared faction, nowadays you have overstepped your boundaries more times zhan our counters can count to, you seep with internal bickering and corruption, and recruit berks without even checking zheir criminal records. Your factol was corrupted, giving you free reign to slaughter and opress during zhe crisis, and by the gods you took it. Zhe general attitude since zhan is zhat you've become a group of sadistic prison wardens, who walk zhe streets and act like zhe secret police and bully people whenever zhey see fit!"
He then turns back to the general crowd, speaking with all the power that his lungs could muster.
"Are zhese the people we ought to trust with governing zhe laws and issues that keep civilized life in our fine city possible? Reckless power-mongerers who seek non-other zhan to achieve personal power and damn the costs?"
With that, he politely bows and walks back to the Fated representatives.
After Factor Emila's speech, a tall, hooded figure walks past Kala onto the main podium, dropping his cloak once there to reveal himself as Factor Ra'zeth of the Takers, wearing a fine, yet bulky set of obdurium platemail trimmed with bronze that shone from the light entering through the glass roof. He stands with the pride of a victorious warrior, and speaks with the confidence of a champion of the arenas... whether political or bloody.
"Respected councilmen, fellow factioneers, citizens of Sigil. I am very glad to have zhis opportunity to speak in the name of the Fated. I shall take naught much of your precious time, and get to zhe points straight away."
He added with a smirk, and began his speech.
"Over the past months, our fine city has been struck with many tragedies. Our homes were invaded by indescribable aliens from zhe Far Realm, our economy is suffering from zhe vast amount of tax evasion and zhe Bleakers and Signers were horribly insulted and invaded by zhe Triad of Law. Our 'guardians', zhis Triad of Guvners, Mercykillers and to a lesser degree zhe Harmonium have failed this city time and time again in zhe recent events.
I must ask you... do we want to be protected and governed by people who bicker amongst zhemselves endlessly, get deadlocked into dangerous passivity by a simple lack of orders and are no less devoid of corruption zhan any other chaotic Faction? Let me explain.
Zhe Guvners seek to attain naut just more power, but absolute power over our fates. Zhey refuse our right to govern our own faction's security autonomously and would seek zhis power to none other than zhemselves. Zhey refused our suggestions to involve zhe entire council on matters as sensitive as zhis, and went as far as want to take away the Harmonioum's right to a warrant!"
He turns to the Harmonium representatives, and adressess them.
"Is zhat what you call harmonious, noble Factol Sarin? To be denied your rights and governed by power-mongerers? Or to be allied with zhose who claim to uphold Justice, yet just as easily accept abyssal power into zheir ranks?"
He then shifts his attention to the Mercykillers, fearlessly pointing at the,
"Yes, you. Zhe Mercykillers. Once a respected and feared faction, nowadays you have overstepped your boundaries more times zhan our counters can count to, you seep with internal bickering and corruption, and recruit berks without even checking zheir criminal records. Your factol was corrupted, giving you free reign to slaughter and opress during zhe crisis, and by the gods you took it. Zhe general attitude since zhan is zhat you've become a group of sadistic prison wardens, who walk zhe streets and act like zhe secret police and bully people whenever zhey see fit!"
He then turns back to the general crowd, speaking with all the power that his lungs could muster.
"Are zhese the people we ought to trust with governing zhe laws and issues that keep civilized life in our fine city possible? Reckless power-mongerers who seek non-other zhan to achieve personal power and damn the costs?"
With that, he politely bows and walks back to the Fated representatives.
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*DarkArc
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
After Emila finished speaking, Charae stood up and said, "Honorable representatives, we are all tired. It is true that the invaders weakened us, that they exploited our vulnerabilities. I, along with my brothers and sisters of the Red Death, were present when the Gatehouse was taken back and the encampment of corrupted Mercykillers was purged. In that time our faction has reflected much on how things could have happened different. We too feel that there is a time for change, but the motion proposed by Factor Kala is not the way. I would also like to say that as much as many of you may think that the Triad is to blame for this invasion, it was undoubtedly the Triad that beat the invaders back.
"Before my faction decides their vote, I would like a moment to point out the flaws within this plan. The first point speaks that the faction halls must give permission for the Triad or any other member to enter. So you mean to say that a faction should remain completely immune from the laws proposed by this council. If this motion is passed, factions within their headquarters would be virtually free to do as they wished without concern for the other factions. To better describe why this motion is flawed, I will use the second point as an example.
"If a crime happens within a faction's territory, Triad members would have to get the faction in question's permission before they could enforce the council's law. And what if that faction doesn't want to cooperate? Must we have a council meeting for every petty decision when a faction member breaks the law and seeks haven within his faction's walls? This would do more harm than good. What if the invaders return and do as they did before and corrupt one of our Factols? We replaced one vulnerability with another with this motion.
"The third point is irrelevant. The fourth point would have Triad members not wear their uniforms in public places off duty. That Factor Kala says that this has prompted 'necessary acts of violence' against the Triad leaves me concerned about her intentions. Do we bow down to anarchy and terrorism by not allowing our factions to represent themselves? If this motion is passed, it should not be so selective as to isolate the Triad members, but should also extend to all other factions. In that, no faction may wear their uniform or raise a banner within the bar's area while off duty.
"I propose a different course of action to this motion. During this session, it has been accused that the Triad were the ones responsible for the invasion. In truth, it was the Harmonium and the Guvners that led to this situation happening. I, along with many of the Red Death, attempted to defuse the situation before it became such a massive problem. The Red Death may be part of the Triad, but we have little say over what the Harmonium and the Guvners do.
"What I propose is that during times of interfactional crisis, the Triad as a whole must unanimously agree on a course of action. As it stands, all it took for the Gatehouse to be invaded was a single Guvner official. That one official moved the Harmonium into taking over the Bleaker's headquarters. It is not a Triad if the Mercykillers have no say in how either faction conducts their business. If a move must be made to arrest a criminal within another faction's territory, a high ranking official from each faction of the Triad of Law must give permission. And, as a courtesy, the faction can be notified of the impending action. If this does not work or if the Triad is in some way incapable, then a council session can be held to determine the best course of action.
"Regardless of what some of you may think of the Red Death, we police our own. We are the only faction within the Triad that will punish or even execute our own for those that violate our tenants. And you cannot deny that the Red Death, despite the corruption caused by the invaders within our own ranks, were the first to bleed and die in order to liberate our city from this blight.
"I hope that the council takes all of this into consideration before making their decision."
Charae sat back down.
"Before my faction decides their vote, I would like a moment to point out the flaws within this plan. The first point speaks that the faction halls must give permission for the Triad or any other member to enter. So you mean to say that a faction should remain completely immune from the laws proposed by this council. If this motion is passed, factions within their headquarters would be virtually free to do as they wished without concern for the other factions. To better describe why this motion is flawed, I will use the second point as an example.
"If a crime happens within a faction's territory, Triad members would have to get the faction in question's permission before they could enforce the council's law. And what if that faction doesn't want to cooperate? Must we have a council meeting for every petty decision when a faction member breaks the law and seeks haven within his faction's walls? This would do more harm than good. What if the invaders return and do as they did before and corrupt one of our Factols? We replaced one vulnerability with another with this motion.
"The third point is irrelevant. The fourth point would have Triad members not wear their uniforms in public places off duty. That Factor Kala says that this has prompted 'necessary acts of violence' against the Triad leaves me concerned about her intentions. Do we bow down to anarchy and terrorism by not allowing our factions to represent themselves? If this motion is passed, it should not be so selective as to isolate the Triad members, but should also extend to all other factions. In that, no faction may wear their uniform or raise a banner within the bar's area while off duty.
"I propose a different course of action to this motion. During this session, it has been accused that the Triad were the ones responsible for the invasion. In truth, it was the Harmonium and the Guvners that led to this situation happening. I, along with many of the Red Death, attempted to defuse the situation before it became such a massive problem. The Red Death may be part of the Triad, but we have little say over what the Harmonium and the Guvners do.
"What I propose is that during times of interfactional crisis, the Triad as a whole must unanimously agree on a course of action. As it stands, all it took for the Gatehouse to be invaded was a single Guvner official. That one official moved the Harmonium into taking over the Bleaker's headquarters. It is not a Triad if the Mercykillers have no say in how either faction conducts their business. If a move must be made to arrest a criminal within another faction's territory, a high ranking official from each faction of the Triad of Law must give permission. And, as a courtesy, the faction can be notified of the impending action. If this does not work or if the Triad is in some way incapable, then a council session can be held to determine the best course of action.
"Regardless of what some of you may think of the Red Death, we police our own. We are the only faction within the Triad that will punish or even execute our own for those that violate our tenants. And you cannot deny that the Red Death, despite the corruption caused by the invaders within our own ranks, were the first to bleed and die in order to liberate our city from this blight.
"I hope that the council takes all of this into consideration before making their decision."
Charae sat back down.
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*Xndar
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Factor Sixthfinger stands, when the opportunity presents itself, to give a brief statement. Those who know her well might note that she chooses to keep her accent, likely just to aggravate the council stenographers.
"Wit respect ta tha Fraternity representative's comments on Factor Kala's proposal, I think we kin all agree tha' protectin tha private property o' every factioneer frem tha Triad were nay wha' me fellow Factor 'ad in mind, an' such kin be reflected in tha specific language o' tha bill if need be. Tha point be ta protect tha sovereignty o' our official faction headquarters an' properties.
I got nothin but respec' fer Factol Sarin an' Factor Swan's Son," she gives each a nod in turn if they are present, "an' I dunnae think Factor Kala's proposal shoul' be viewed as an attack on any o' tha Triad; rather's a safeguard wit tha understandin tha' sometimes unruly factioneers end up causin more troubles than they need ta in other factions' domains, an' tha' this measure woul' save tha Triad a lotta unnecessary headaches an' paperwork."
"Wit respect ta tha Fraternity representative's comments on Factor Kala's proposal, I think we kin all agree tha' protectin tha private property o' every factioneer frem tha Triad were nay wha' me fellow Factor 'ad in mind, an' such kin be reflected in tha specific language o' tha bill if need be. Tha point be ta protect tha sovereignty o' our official faction headquarters an' properties.
I got nothin but respec' fer Factol Sarin an' Factor Swan's Son," she gives each a nod in turn if they are present, "an' I dunnae think Factor Kala's proposal shoul' be viewed as an attack on any o' tha Triad; rather's a safeguard wit tha understandin tha' sometimes unruly factioneers end up causin more troubles than they need ta in other factions' domains, an' tha' this measure woul' save tha Triad a lotta unnecessary headaches an' paperwork."
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*Selebius
- Posts: 1073
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((Taurus: Feel free to speak.
However remember that ICly a toon will be seen as namer by NPCs....
One round of opening statements, please. Reactions come afterwards.
))
More scribbling from the construct, the Signer looking around for more speakers offering their opening statements.
"Please go on, honoured members of this council. We will hear all your opening statements first, then you will have an opportunity to react"
However remember that ICly a toon will be seen as namer by NPCs....
One round of opening statements, please. Reactions come afterwards.
))
More scribbling from the construct, the Signer looking around for more speakers offering their opening statements.
"Please go on, honoured members of this council. We will hear all your opening statements first, then you will have an opportunity to react"
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*Taurus Daggerknight
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((nothing to add yet. Just wanted to clarify what the rules and all are.
IC'ly he's currently just there with the rest of the MK's))
IC'ly he's currently just there with the rest of the MK's))
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*Anthropomorphic Drama
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
A tall and slender man in an entirely green colour scheme makes his way to the center with wobbly steps. Having listened so far passively Scamp finally decided to speak to the council.
Ladies, gentlemen, councilmen, guests and uninvited guests. he addressed everyone around I'm here to speak on behalf of the Society of Sensation, and at first I must admit that I am both humbled to speak within some of the greatest and biggest philosophers of the Cage, at the same time I am very anxious to talk here infront all of you. Not because I feel outdone, but because this subject matters to me greatly.
There are few things I genuinely believe are exceptionally important and downplayed here in the council. Therefore I also feel it is important for me to try to martial my facts and express no contempt for individual philosophising or purpose they are driving.
However I also feel that something surely is missing, are we actually discussing whether the Triad has an authority to barge into other factions establishments seriously? I had been under impression that such was already out of their authority, so why are we discussing whether to maintain this because I believe very few of us are willing to give away our Faction headquarters.
Sure they can try to impose their will if they so choose, as can all of us and I'm certain they're going to make great many allies and friends this way... sarcasm was easily noted but during the Great Upheaval five centuries ago it was deemed that fifteen factions would be there, not three. You may try to barge into the faction halls should you choose so, as long as you understand that it can be interpreted as an act of hostility, and we all know such behavior will not benefit anyone. Surely at this time and age, diplomacy has not been lost to us?
And why are we discussing this when we already have the tools at our hands to deem sanctions and trials to those whom are guilty. So some of triad decided to take justice upon their own hands as such break their own laws, is this not subject to the legal procedure of their actions and penalties? I question why are we not driving the men and women whom were guilty to be judged under the Court of Law? Especially considering corruption and twisting was at work here, we're making decisions to change structure based upon manipulation rather than finding methods to diminish the future possibilities of manipulation.
Now I am a man whom enjoys great divercity of things, I am also a man whom is capable of cognitive dissonance. As such I will take the opportunity to say that I am, in favor of Harmonium presence, for it allows me to fulfill my conquest of multiversal sensory exploration. That however doesn't mean I want you breathing down our neck, but I understand in a city that has fiends and the dead walking freely on the streets, asking politely is going to be quite ineffective very quickly... which really might require some additional guidelines for inter-species legal management, but I digress.
Instead of looking to remove the influence of the Triad of Law, I would wish to hear what the Triad has planned to counter act future manipulation of similar magnitude, and what is to be done about the crimes committed against the Bleak Cabal? And it indeed does sound like a crime, whether or not it has been By members of your own, then the necessity of criminal justice is ever greater.
As for the motion to remove Triad uniforms within a single bar of the entirety of Sigil, it makes me wonder. Why only there? And why only the Triad of all things? Certainly this would have to count for all of the drinking establishments and all official uniforms if it was to be passed? Not that I say it should be, we're all allowed to practice our philosophies within the borders of the Sigil, so being forbidden to do so in public appears suspension of some of the foundations of our very rights.
Now I am merely rambling, but I'd like to add finally that we should explore all alternatives before jumping to conclusion of acting only against a couple of factions. That said, I would also like to say that I have the full confidence into the actions of the Triad... but sadly I do not. It's more like fourty six percent confidence. Thank you councilmen.
With this Scamp makes his way back to his seat to listen.
Ladies, gentlemen, councilmen, guests and uninvited guests. he addressed everyone around I'm here to speak on behalf of the Society of Sensation, and at first I must admit that I am both humbled to speak within some of the greatest and biggest philosophers of the Cage, at the same time I am very anxious to talk here infront all of you. Not because I feel outdone, but because this subject matters to me greatly.
There are few things I genuinely believe are exceptionally important and downplayed here in the council. Therefore I also feel it is important for me to try to martial my facts and express no contempt for individual philosophising or purpose they are driving.
However I also feel that something surely is missing, are we actually discussing whether the Triad has an authority to barge into other factions establishments seriously? I had been under impression that such was already out of their authority, so why are we discussing whether to maintain this because I believe very few of us are willing to give away our Faction headquarters.
Sure they can try to impose their will if they so choose, as can all of us and I'm certain they're going to make great many allies and friends this way... sarcasm was easily noted but during the Great Upheaval five centuries ago it was deemed that fifteen factions would be there, not three. You may try to barge into the faction halls should you choose so, as long as you understand that it can be interpreted as an act of hostility, and we all know such behavior will not benefit anyone. Surely at this time and age, diplomacy has not been lost to us?
And why are we discussing this when we already have the tools at our hands to deem sanctions and trials to those whom are guilty. So some of triad decided to take justice upon their own hands as such break their own laws, is this not subject to the legal procedure of their actions and penalties? I question why are we not driving the men and women whom were guilty to be judged under the Court of Law? Especially considering corruption and twisting was at work here, we're making decisions to change structure based upon manipulation rather than finding methods to diminish the future possibilities of manipulation.
Now I am a man whom enjoys great divercity of things, I am also a man whom is capable of cognitive dissonance. As such I will take the opportunity to say that I am, in favor of Harmonium presence, for it allows me to fulfill my conquest of multiversal sensory exploration. That however doesn't mean I want you breathing down our neck, but I understand in a city that has fiends and the dead walking freely on the streets, asking politely is going to be quite ineffective very quickly... which really might require some additional guidelines for inter-species legal management, but I digress.
Instead of looking to remove the influence of the Triad of Law, I would wish to hear what the Triad has planned to counter act future manipulation of similar magnitude, and what is to be done about the crimes committed against the Bleak Cabal? And it indeed does sound like a crime, whether or not it has been By members of your own, then the necessity of criminal justice is ever greater.
As for the motion to remove Triad uniforms within a single bar of the entirety of Sigil, it makes me wonder. Why only there? And why only the Triad of all things? Certainly this would have to count for all of the drinking establishments and all official uniforms if it was to be passed? Not that I say it should be, we're all allowed to practice our philosophies within the borders of the Sigil, so being forbidden to do so in public appears suspension of some of the foundations of our very rights.
Now I am merely rambling, but I'd like to add finally that we should explore all alternatives before jumping to conclusion of acting only against a couple of factions. That said, I would also like to say that I have the full confidence into the actions of the Triad... but sadly I do not. It's more like fourty six percent confidence. Thank you councilmen.
With this Scamp makes his way back to his seat to listen.
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*Tomekk
- Posts: 855
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
//Hydra, Midnight, Krayt and Selebius are pretty much absent from forums. I'd politely ask everyone to wait for their full return before we start a storm here, because its easy to debate when there's no one to debate with. And why there are Namers in such a high profile meeting is beyond me :P//