Permit Request - Clarification Of A Law

[*Brindas]

((I think there is some confusion. She wanted not only a permit, but rules and regulations regarding their personage. Rhistel probably knows that, but I think the reason it was in the hands of Guvners (slavery) was for this precise reason, simply owning the permit doesn't just let you do anything you want to them. The Sigilian law is not, for example, Baatorian law with regards to slaves, whereby you can do anything including kill them. I think Alersia wanted someone to explain what the slave laws are and how much of a beating you can give them. If that's the case, incidentally, Brindas has studied that subject extensively and can give you an IC explanation if you like)).

[*Serena]

((I think there is some confusion. She wanted not only a permit, but rules and regulations regarding their personage. Rhistel probably knows that, but I think the reason it was in the hands of Guvners (slavery) was for this precise reason, simply owning the permit doesn't just let you do anything you want to them. The Sigilian law is not, for example, Baatorian law with regards to slaves, whereby you can do anything including kill them. I think Alersia wanted someone to explain what the slave laws are and how much of a beating you can give them. If that's the case, incidentally, Brindas has studied that subject extensively and can give you an IC explanation if you like)).

yes, this

[*Alersia]

(( Okay. In the past Alersia went to the hall of records and spoke with Rhistel. Among some other permits he gave her one for "trade, acquisition and owning of slaves" aswell.

So who's gonna answer her questions regarding the treatment of the slaves? Rhistel might answer them himself or maybe send Alersia to Brindas.

Perhaps it would be best to note the treatment rules at the permit document. It wouldnt matter who does it, I think. ))

[*Alersia]

//

Punishment and use for said slave is yours to decide- there are contracts for simple manservants or maids, for workers. On the other end of the spectrum you got living blood donours for undead and test subjects for researchers or the pain-puppets used in the Temple of the Abyss.

As long as you stick to the contract and not use a slave in a way it is not meant to or use it to break any laws it is up to you what you do."

Aslong as you dont break "any laws". The following is meaned to be a law.

II. Indictable Offenses

1. Assault
Assault is defined as an unwanted attempt to deliver physical or concrete mental harm to an individual. This can be done via weapons, spells and so on.

Following this statement harmonium law enforcer do not allow bad treatment of slaves, no matter who it does and where it happens.

Conclussion

I think its not intended that slaves are included into the assault rule. To make it simply lets say the permits given out by the halls of record exclude the slaves from the assault rule and only the murdering of a slave is considered a "indictable offense" by the harmonium?

A quicklink to the law thread can be found here.

Oh, and there is still the following whritten:

Permits are official documents, ones approved by the Fraternity of Order, entitling an individual to otherwise unlawful rights. The following is an overview of these permits.

Domination
Domination is an attempt to remove the free will of an individual, without legal permit or consent of the free willed individual in question.

So the domination of non-citiziens outside of Sigil is fine and they can be brought to sigil as slaves, yes? //

[*MimiFearthegn]

//Takers do all licenses EXCEPT brandishing weapons. These are the threads you should look at:

Guide to the Legal System
IC Laws

Don't refer back to that original thread. If I remember correctly, that explanation didn't make sense at all.

The mention of the Fraternity and permits has been fixed for the one link.

I will probably update the laws with whatever Selebius makes up for the treatment of slaves - you're in the right place for the clarification of laws, at least.//

[*Alersia]

// Does holding a (coiled) whip in a hand count as brandished weapon?

Wielding of Weapons in Public
Wielding of weapons in public is defined as displaying a weapon or having it out of its sheathe, holster, or peaceknot in public, even if not in a threatening manner, except for cleaning and maintenance. Officials of the Harmonium are excluded.

I think staffs are excluded?

I am sorry for talking so much OOC :(

//

[*MimiFearthegn]

//It depends on who you ask IC. :P

[*Selebius]

((Ok! Will try to answer all stuff ICly :P

Mimi- if some of the stuff I will say here does not fit what the staff envisions please correct me.
I am just writing up how I usually handled stuff with Hasclaan in the past and on decisions made when I was still DM: ))

He nods as the Alu Fiend quites the law, perhaps a bit surprised that a creature of chaos shows as much interest in legal procedures.

"You are correct but you forget some small detail: Depending on the contract the slave is no longer an individual or person but mere property. Breaking a finger would be the same thing as if you decide to break a pencil you own- it does not longer concern the Harmonium at all.

However severe punishment in public might get you in trouble for other reasons- disturbing of the peace, behaviour offensive to the public and so on. So you are well advised to do it in private.

Also- and I cannot repeat it often enough- keep the exact nature of the contract in mind. Not all slaves are equal.", he ends with a small smirk.

"As for domination through magical or psionic means, through rituals or natural abilities- again it strongly depends. Inside the Cage it is a crime- outside the laws of the area you are in matter.
Also Sigil citizen can still apply to the courts if you dominated them outside the cage and brought them back afterwards.

When taking slaves keep in mind that the license required is a different one as well. There are three licenses a slaver must possess: Owning slaves is the one you can get most easily. Trading with slaves is more restricted and often given out only temporarily at first. The third, taking slaves is the most rare one and the one most tightly restricted.

Keep in mind that taking a slave under Sigil's law requires a lawful contract to be made at the Courts as well as all taxes to be paid with the Fated. In addition depending on the circumstances other procedures might have to be followed as well."

Leaning back he moves onwards to the next question:

"A whip held in hand is a weapon ready and so it must be licensed. Staffs are an exceptions as are walking sticks. After all we cannot punish the elderly and frail and..... when it comes to overall destructive capacity a staff seldom matters when compared to whatever spells a caster might have readied.

Of course there are laws restricting the use of destructive magic in town as well- but I digress.

If you need a way to keep an unrily slave in check I would suggest a cane or walking stick instead of the whip- or simply choose a shock collar, or its sonic negative or positive energy counterpart for those resistant to electrical jolts.

Is there anything else I can help you with?"