( Just to make everything abundantly clear. This is NOT OOC hating on you b00seven, but rather and in-character response to the way your dragon behaves. He is a Namer the equivilant to a Military bootcamp Recruit ( That is the extent of his authority), and the way he's been acting have been in a completel disregard for chain of command. It doesnt matter if what you are doing is Lore wise sound. Its that fact that Junas been making the harmonium look bad in the public view and been the focal point of several scandals, not to mention having sabotaged several investigations and interrogations (One of which vale was present at). The reprimands and corrrections aswell as berratements Juna is recieveing now is a direct consequence of the way you chose to RP him within the harmonium. This have nothing to do with us wanting to hate on you as a player what so ever)
Mobilizing The Conformatists
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*b00seven
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((I understand Nica's position, and you've already relayed it to me, but I'm asking the players in the faction to consider the direction of factional RP overall.
everyone player in the server knows OOC that Juna tried to claim an area in the beastlands, but not every player and certainly not every faction should be against that (though some certainly should). This is normal behavior for a dragon, especially a dragon species known for their affinity for beasts.
The Conformatists, a lore based group within the harmonium should have some concern if an aspiring power from pandemonium is setting up in the upper planes. Juna is looking for some support from the lore environment, and this is where it should be.
Look, conflict RP doesn't work if people are focused on winning and losing. That only gets Ugly. It only works if the players involved are focusing in enriching the RP experience of those their characters are opposed to.
Juna got frozen out of Brux, and as a player I didn't whine, I moved on.
Anyway, I got the impression that my controversial and confrontational and Position driven RP with Juna is appreciated, and is helping to drive both DM plots and character stories. I know that there are players in the server who appreciate more authentic RP. I've tried to move to an area where his RP is more supported by lore, but I have to say that I'm starting to feel a bit like an island here.
At the very least, NPC's within the faction should be backing Juna up, and players within the faction should at least offer some tacit support and unity on lore grounds. If this is a matter of OOC/IC established rank and acting out of turn... then the factions on this server have a different problem (but that's a box I don't want to open). I'm all for some acknowledgement of past contributions of long time players and character, but it shouldn't appear as an organized effort to stifle RP initiative)).
everyone player in the server knows OOC that Juna tried to claim an area in the beastlands, but not every player and certainly not every faction should be against that (though some certainly should). This is normal behavior for a dragon, especially a dragon species known for their affinity for beasts.
The Conformatists, a lore based group within the harmonium should have some concern if an aspiring power from pandemonium is setting up in the upper planes. Juna is looking for some support from the lore environment, and this is where it should be.
Look, conflict RP doesn't work if people are focused on winning and losing. That only gets Ugly. It only works if the players involved are focusing in enriching the RP experience of those their characters are opposed to.
Juna got frozen out of Brux, and as a player I didn't whine, I moved on.
Anyway, I got the impression that my controversial and confrontational and Position driven RP with Juna is appreciated, and is helping to drive both DM plots and character stories. I know that there are players in the server who appreciate more authentic RP. I've tried to move to an area where his RP is more supported by lore, but I have to say that I'm starting to feel a bit like an island here.
At the very least, NPC's within the faction should be backing Juna up, and players within the faction should at least offer some tacit support and unity on lore grounds. If this is a matter of OOC/IC established rank and acting out of turn... then the factions on this server have a different problem (but that's a box I don't want to open). I'm all for some acknowledgement of past contributions of long time players and character, but it shouldn't appear as an organized effort to stifle RP initiative)).
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*Xndar
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((Acting outside of your rank in a Lawful organization dedicated to discipline, maintaining discipline, and promoting order is kind of a VERY BIG DEAL ICly.
If you were, as a Namer, taking the initiative and doing everything you've already done as, say, a Fated or Signer or Godsmen, you'd probably be commended or even promoted ICly.
What you are doing ICly is being a Private talking smack to a 5-Star General and telling them how they ought to run a campaign. It would not be tolerated, no matter how good the ideas, because it breaks down the chain of command.
Requesting permission to speak with a commanding officer to air said opinions in private is a very different matter, and would see significantly less backlash.
If you want Faction RP without having to worry so much about rank, the Harmonium (and the Triad in general) is really the wrong place to do it.))
If you were, as a Namer, taking the initiative and doing everything you've already done as, say, a Fated or Signer or Godsmen, you'd probably be commended or even promoted ICly.
What you are doing ICly is being a Private talking smack to a 5-Star General and telling them how they ought to run a campaign. It would not be tolerated, no matter how good the ideas, because it breaks down the chain of command.
Requesting permission to speak with a commanding officer to air said opinions in private is a very different matter, and would see significantly less backlash.
If you want Faction RP without having to worry so much about rank, the Harmonium (and the Triad in general) is really the wrong place to do it.))
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*Xndar
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((Also if you want to focus on the Lore aspect of things, keep in mind that according to cannon, the Conformatists are very very polarizing within the Harmonium. Some factioneers really admire them, while others very much loathe them. So if they are your blueprint of how you want to run your RP, expect some of the 'loathing' end of the spectrum to catch up with you, especially given all of the comments given above by others and myself regarding rank.
That said your actions are somewhat more in line with the Inquisition than with the Comfortmatists, which also has been moving away from standard Harmonium doctrine toward being its own Sect))
That said your actions are somewhat more in line with the Inquisition than with the Comfortmatists, which also has been moving away from standard Harmonium doctrine toward being its own Sect))
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*b00seven
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((A fair point Xndar, but I think you should look over my initial post again.
He is meeting with the 5 star generals who Should agree with him.
The IC here is all still fine given the speech... but there is a major lore based faction within the organization who should also be mobilizing and contributing their interests given the issue at hand. All I'm asking is for their position to be reflected in the faction as well. That is the entire point of this post))
wrote: The vigilant Namer spends the next several days around the Barracks seeking the council of known CONFORMATISTS ((read hardheads volume 3)) and attempts to convince them of his plight.
He is meeting with the 5 star generals who Should agree with him.
The IC here is all still fine given the speech... but there is a major lore based faction within the organization who should also be mobilizing and contributing their interests given the issue at hand. All I'm asking is for their position to be reflected in the faction as well. That is the entire point of this post))
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*Ariella
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
The Conformatists are already working on the issue and are a rather large number of the faction currently within Sigil, That said however they won't support someone not willing to follow the chain of command, If that was changed however Juna would likely find him self with their full support.
I know this could use better representation IG but its a slow processes.
I know this could use better representation IG but its a slow processes.
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*WhenWizardsWar
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
This is exactly christophers mindset and why he is very critical of the situation.Xndar,Mar 25 2016 wrote: ((Acting outside of your rank in a Lawful organization dedicated to discipline, maintaining discipline, and promoting order is kind of a VERY BIG DEAL ICly.
If you were, as a Namer, taking the initiative and doing everything you've already done as, say, a Fated or Signer or Godsmen, you'd probably be commended or even promoted ICly.
What you are doing ICly is being a Private talking smack to a 5-Star General and telling them how they ought to run a campaign. It would not be tolerated, no matter how good the ideas, because it breaks down the chain of command.
Requesting permission to speak with a commanding officer to air said opinions in private is a very different matter, and would see significantly less backlash.
If you want Faction RP without having to worry so much about rank, the Harmonium (and the Triad in general) is really the wrong place to do it.))
Its got nothing to do with interfaction rp persay, but rather how people act when they are under harrmonium color and doctrine.
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*Viann
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
((If it happened in the courtyard openly, then Nica's reaction wouldn't really change. If conformatist officers had something to say, that's fine, she's under orders by Factol Sarin and that is pretty much the highest authority there is for her to react to and she intends to do so with a fanatic dedication. If there's going to be a change, then it needs to be a change in general. If you don't want others to react to things Juna says or does, he'll need to work on them more subtly... which is just about the basis of all the dialogue and IC complaints as well. Sorry to sound like party pooper with this, but I'm also wanting to avoid needing to go through this again, so I rather clear it up from the get go. =P))
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*b00seven
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
@ WWW: to your points:
1. I did address these issues generally to Nica (his commanding officer) in game before making the post.
2. He is making an impassioned case to Sr. Officers in the courtyard. I reread the post and I can easily see how it can be interpreted as some general speech to a large group (A. because I mistakenly made it in the courtyard... we need offices in game... and B, because I used the 'Braveheart' speech allusion which makes it look like he's working-up a large group of rabble).
If you thought he was giving that speech to a group of rabble, It reads one way... if you think he's selling his position to Sr. Officer Conformatists who have become sympathetic to arguments due to the first part of the post (where he spends days seeking their council), it reads another.
I think everyone read it as the former, and my intent was definitely the latter (as this is not an appeal to my fellow players, it is an appeal to the faction - and by extension the DM - based on lore).
He is calling for - in the strongest case - an inquisition. An Inquisition is a top-down event, not a bottom-up event. Of course I am just a player, and a low ranked officer... so the DM's response to this is all that matters.
@ Nica:
I don't think Nica would have acted the way she did if she realized Juna was giving the speech to Sr. Officers. As I understand your character, she would have approached, saluted, and looked to them for direction as they are the Sr. Officers.
Any misinterpretations are my fault, I tried to do this IC for dramatic effect and it ran away from me a bit.
Anyway, screw it, I don't want to try to push things through by DM fiat if the faction players aren't interested and I don't want to put the DM in a tough position either. The ideas are out there, if you guys want to play off them I'll leave it to you. Feel free to tell Ariella in PM's if u want to run with any of it. Meanwhile I'll back off down to my appropriate lowly role and if necessary focus my character's RP elsewhere.
1. I did address these issues generally to Nica (his commanding officer) in game before making the post.
2. He is making an impassioned case to Sr. Officers in the courtyard. I reread the post and I can easily see how it can be interpreted as some general speech to a large group (A. because I mistakenly made it in the courtyard... we need offices in game... and B, because I used the 'Braveheart' speech allusion which makes it look like he's working-up a large group of rabble).
If you thought he was giving that speech to a group of rabble, It reads one way... if you think he's selling his position to Sr. Officer Conformatists who have become sympathetic to arguments due to the first part of the post (where he spends days seeking their council), it reads another.
I think everyone read it as the former, and my intent was definitely the latter (as this is not an appeal to my fellow players, it is an appeal to the faction - and by extension the DM - based on lore).
He is calling for - in the strongest case - an inquisition. An Inquisition is a top-down event, not a bottom-up event. Of course I am just a player, and a low ranked officer... so the DM's response to this is all that matters.
@ Nica:
I don't think Nica would have acted the way she did if she realized Juna was giving the speech to Sr. Officers. As I understand your character, she would have approached, saluted, and looked to them for direction as they are the Sr. Officers.
Any misinterpretations are my fault, I tried to do this IC for dramatic effect and it ran away from me a bit.
Anyway, screw it, I don't want to try to push things through by DM fiat if the faction players aren't interested and I don't want to put the DM in a tough position either. The ideas are out there, if you guys want to play off them I'll leave it to you. Feel free to tell Ariella in PM's if u want to run with any of it. Meanwhile I'll back off down to my appropriate lowly role and if necessary focus my character's RP elsewhere.