class question

[*cryptc]

more like find the right DM ;) needs to be edited offline

[*Dedic8ed]

Theurges? I don't know whether to be interested in the thought of overpowered combination arcane/divine casters replacing warlocks as the powergamer's class of choice, or to be horribly frightened by the same thing.

Well... that or build one myself the instant they become available.....

Actually, what I personally would be interested in seeing are more "connector" classes, ones that (like warpriest) give increased combat capabilities to caster-types without having to take the old "...and four levels of fighter for feats and attack bonus!" route, or (like divine champion or blackguard) give straight melee-types supernatural capabilities to keep them at least within shouting distance of the casters in the mid-to-high levels. Also interesting would be variants on existing PRCs. Stormlord is such a fun class to take... but being tied to spears and electricity winds up making for a rather blah environment, while I also have to wonder what interesting capabilities could be unlocked by someone actually being able to play a Silver Dragon Disciple. Race-dependent PRCs could be interesting as well, especially if tied to a race that does not currently have a lot of representation (such as specific elven subraces, or certain genaasi), or even to a "custom" race such as githyanki.

And again, I go flying off on a stream-of-consciousness tangent and throwing things at the wall to see if they stick. Again, simply food for thought....

[*Lost and not Found]

Powergamer's class of choice: Cleric/Favored Soul with a splash of a melee character. Immunities to almost everything found in the game, sources of damage that cannot be resisted, and not even being item dependant at all.

:P

Note: Warlock 29/Shadowdancer 1 can was able to hurt arcanists a while back. Haven't tried one in 1.23, though.

Just image the scenario:
Plain Eldritch Blast offers no save and is ranged touch attack. After gaining 10d6 of it also goes through spell resistances and mantles, (haven't verified this in 1.23). At level 30, theoretical maximum damage is 19d6 with the build mentioned beforehand.

Thus, you can expect to cause an avarage of 76 damage per each blast while using HiPS to evade the arcanist's retaliation to some extent.

Not really something I'd consider strong...

[*Theban Soldier]

I have played a similar build, actually throwing in a rogue level and taking SD 2 (I like evasion and darkvision). With Eldritch Spear, the HiPS/blast combo is deadly and annoying.

:P

[*Psionic-Entity]

Well... psh. With eldritch master and hellfire you can get 24d6 damage to start with, that gets multiplied by 1.5 to about 36d6... that's alot more than 76!

Anyways, theurges aren't too hot. They get capped at 20/20 casting, and 24 CL. This means that their spells are less powerful, and that one mords will strip them of pretty much all their buffs.

Anyways, alot of the really cool PRCs are pretty much impossible to do. Kaedrin's done alot of work, but there won't be any paladin/rogue PRCs any time soon, just due to the fact that it's impossible to stack smite damage without rewriting the code for smite evil and doing a whole bunch of finnicky changes, etc. Blame obsidian on that one.

[*Theban Soldier]

An odd warlock build is high-Cha, and using Tenacious Plague. Start with a Cha-bonus race, hit Cha 27 by 28th level, and add in a +5 Cha cloak. Now, with 32 Cha, a +11, you can unload very nasty tenacious plagues. Their attack bonus will be +25, and you get 9 per casting at level 27. Against single targets, that is up to 18d6 per round for three rounds . . . during which time you hit them with eldrtich blasts. Even better, if using HiPS, you can cast this spell, then re-HiPS as the swarms do their magic.

The tactic does not work on opponents with very high ACs (ACs of 45+ are almost immune), but works wonders against high-hp brutes and fragile opponents with lots of immunities (the plague damage is magical).

[*Lost and not Found]

I did some testing and with a charisma score of 38. My tenacious plague had the AB of 32 (4 + (14 x 2)). Although, it was high enough to hit the base NWN2 balor with all the nine swarms - I have to say the combat was none-the-less, a struggle.

Against multiple enemies the effect of the Tenacious Plague was greatly diminished and ended in a squishy death.

I did not have HIPS on the build. (Warlocks do not get a lot of skill points per level, thus increasing intelligence is required. High Charisma + Moderate Intelligence = Other Stats are Simply Pathetic. And no "Hipster" can hide from the Ears of an Elven Bard. :P )

All in all:
A level 20 Barbarian, would have been stronger contester than the level 29 Warlock. (Although the warlock did have actually quite decent saves.)

[*Dedic8ed]

Interesting... seeing as how most of you are pointing out comparative buld power in terms of PvP. When I made my comment favoring warlocks (who, no insult attended to anyone, but I have never played and will never play because it feels less like playing D&D and more like playing Diablo), it was primarily focused on the fact that it does sometimes seem that there are more warlocks running about than any other individual class, and that they do offer the highest chance of continued survival and superiority versus the spawns on this server from levels 1-30. Mainly, it's because of their choices of invocations, which seem limiting compared with the spell selections of other classes, but on the other hand give said warlock powers which manage to combine the best features of other classes.

Warlocks cannot buff themselves as well as clerics and druids... but better than everyone else.
Warlocks cannot create massive amounts of damage as well as true fighter-based builds... but better than everyone else.
Warlocks can't kill you from a distance as well as mages and sorcers.... but better than everyon else.
Warlocks can't be stealty as well as rogue-based builds... but better than everyone else.

Am I sensing a theme here? Add in the warlock buddy, which removes the most bothersome part of being a warlock, and suddenly you have a powerful character that is easy to play. The fact of the matter is, if I wished to have a character who could easily skate through levels in order to reach the epics as quickly as possible, without caring about RP, I'd make a warlock.

And that is the thing for the theurges. "Oh no, they'll only be able to be L20 in each" is downright silly unless worrying about PvP (or unless the developers decide to put truly epic monsters into the game, like demon lords and the like). Base it from favored soul and sorcerer, throw in bonus spells and a rings that grant extra spells, and what you'll have is a massively buffed, combat savvy engine of magical destruction that will make the ever-present Sorcerer/Eldritch knight with auto-still L3 seem like a friendly bunny.

On the flip side... my (eventual) cleric/warpriest/divine champion will not be a truly nasty PvM build until I reach about L20, and will never be a PvP beast... but for the way I like to play the game, she'll be a lot more fun (for me) than a warlock.

[*Nakaru-nigousan]

... I only play a warlock because Jordan's an anti-social assclown who would rather skin you alive (if you're not a crewmember) than compliment you.

... Elle, though, is a wizard. She's more powerful than Jordan. Most classes are more powerful than Warlocks, although Warlocks do make excellent multiclasses (Monk 14 / Warlock 16, anyone?)...

-NN

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Well, I'd say opinions on what class or class combination is an argument competing with alignment arguments. There's more to classes than just +# <skill/ability/feature/thingie>, and that is how you play your character... as simplistic example:

- a spellcaster that is self-sustainable, but never supports others.. works well alone, in groups he just makes rest of the group go on starbucks mode, or if there suddenly comes challenge it can't beat then the group might be in trouble.

- the same spellcaster with spell setting to support the group, he might not be the killer this time, but with his aid the group has become far greater as a team and when one of them fails, the rest of the group still can get out of the situation.

I could twist the same spellcaster around and round, him being just offensive spellcaster rather than supporter, being disabler, being tank... ya know, the actual roles you have in group rather than "just another class".