Legacy Characters And Server

[*edmaster44]

0 Ecl master races get best classes and can use it for full advantages.

[*edmaster44]

All the races are being set to the 3 ECL standard for balance purposes. The OP has a point on freedom of choice. If it is a case of flavor over mechanics then we would have both options available for new players. new Races and PRC's are in general worse, actually i have yet to see one that was considered stronger than the previous and that is by design for this 3 ecl standard. more than just nymphs can hit the ridiculous in ac/ab on the older races, I in fact know of several very common legacy races that can easily hit over 80's ac 50+ ab 80+ average dmg. really the only difference now is that people can play these races and be sub-par casters (since all offensive magic outside of psions/warlocks is relatively weak with 0 ecl let alone 3).

It boils down to a built up sense of entitlement and legacy favoritism. I think people should frankly suck it up and rebuild the legacy races when new ones become stable. . . I did =/ (definitely regret some of them but its only fair).

Most Legacy race sucks :P. Genie? awesome race in paper, Rp rise too, but those 8, and 9 ECL? Hurts man. Half-Dragons and Old Khaasta? They were strong as heck, but...funny enough, not a lot of people played them cause they looked Ugly as heck, or what i dub, Fugly.

[*Lucadia]

Iv a feeling that if not having a legacy race for your power build needs is detering you from the rest of the features you said was attractive for the server, this is not the place for you.

Who ever you was talking to was giving you a ride of tall tales of what stats you can get to. Certainly no 100 ab pcs running around without exploits.

Im sorry you cant have old eryiness with +50 stats. Can always get a nymph though. Hurry before time runs out.

[*Itikar]

And don't forget the awesome Marid or Iron Golem.

[*zethrenx99]

Those races where ugly, they where changed now people play them. I don't see how that is against my point? xD

Iv a feeling that if not having a legacy race for your power build needs is detering you from the rest of the features you said was attractive for the server, this is not the place for you.

Its common sense, if you are a new player you want your character to be able to strive (and rightfully so) for the same equivalencies of older legacy players. Its elitism to think that because a new player was not around for x or y they do not deserve it, or that you do deserve to keep it and they should suck it up or leave. That's how you lose players.

And it can even have very little to do with physical strength of a character. A fiend with 50 chr (something you cannot get as a new player) has an innate RP advantage over a new fiend with say 35 in RP based skills. And some races where changed and kept the same ecl, Winterwolves could hit 45 str now they cap at about 30 both ecl 3 and the new one requires 5 levels of a class to gain immunity to cold.

Genies. . . I mean, personally i don't know many who play the new or old ones. There is only one character that comes to mind and he used the legacy race. I kinda liked the old half dragon even if the model didn't match :P It ways fairly unique. Khaas super borked, and the only Khaas I know rcred to the new race. So whats the problem again?

[*Darkrob]

Its elitism to think that because a new player was not around for x or y they do not deserve it, or that you do deserve to keep it and they should suck it up or leave. That's how you lose players.

And my opinion, strictly as a player, is that it's elitism for newer players to come in and expect the established community to abandon long decided things to suit them.

There are always two camps and always will be. If we changed something for every new player that demanded it, we'd be in a constant flux of 'do you know what we're doing? Nope... you? Nada... maybe he does... doubt it... we just gained a new player. Time to start all over again."

Yeah I'm being heavily sarcastic but what I see is someone who loves the mod, loves the setting, RP everything except he can't have some of the 'questionable' goodies people who've played here for years have so they gotta abandon them or he'll split.

Again, as a player, that is akin to extortion. No change... no new player. Sorry but that doesn't fly.

If you're here for the RP and the fun... welcome. If you find you can't have those without the Legacy races, well... sorry.

And I have to say again (as people might think I'm voicing this as staff opinion.. and it's not. I'm posting this as a player.

[*zethrenx99]

I'm not sure how its elitist to want to even the playing field . . . if anything that's the opposite of elitism XD Sure, new players coming in and demanding this and that should be change because "I dont like it!" is snobby, But as a game, on a game standpoint, and one that hinders on a playerbase and a regular flow of players, it is important to keep in mind the needs and desires of anyone new to to mod. . . or maybe even nwn in general because its the flow of new players that keeps a server afloat IMO. Instead of snubbing them off as being entitled and their opinion is beneath you.

I think the prospect of always being weaker then those before you is disheartening for many people. And if RP is the focus here, then none of it should matter and the legacy players would favor the new races because less ecl = more diversity in character, no one is forcing you to take that prc unless it fits your RP and not your desired strength.

Other very real concerns with having the separation of two power levels is, as I have state several times in other threads, area difficulty. This mod is hard, REALLY hard for new players. Its hard for even older more experienced players who know how to manipulate mechanics. Its my opinion that some of these area's are designed with legacy races in mind.

[*Darkrob]

Yes, new players will always feel weaker than older players in a mod that has been designed, and evolved, over years. It's inevitable. Those who've been here over the years, through the good and bad, through imbalance and less imbalance, through decisions made and decisions rescinded, will know the most about the place, have old and rare goodies, having items, gear, races and skills not available to new players. That's a given in any multiplayer game. But to demand that they either give up all those years of playing and investment, all the mistakes, arguments and concessions, just to placate new players, is just as wrong, if not more so.

It's an old game and the playerbase is sparse, I agree, so it shouldn't be a shock to newer players (of such an old game) that they're going to have access to different things than the rest of the playerbase who've been at it for (what seems like) forever.

[*DM-Stitch(es)]

Old players will have things that hail from 2009, new players won't...

Doesn't mean old players are not willing to help out new folk, just can't expect them to relinquish things they rp'd for and worked hard for.

Downside for them, they can't rebuild their characters, since they will forfeit their "builds/classes" :)

[*zethrenx99]

I'm not sure of any multiplayer game that with good intentions does this, come to think of it. Even this mod doesn't. After all haven't we changed certain item sets which now no longer work, Restricted the amount of regen on an item you are allowed to have in order to enter the sever, replaced items with newer updated versions of the same?

sure, going through and manually updating every single person that is on the vault and looking at every single item and then manually changing them would take years, at least that was my perception as to why some of the older more broken items still exist in the game.

I don't think we should similarly go through every character on the vault and change their race, or actively try to monitor it as the amount of time and work would not be fair for the staff. But on the same token I don't think we should encourage it, along the lines of abusing any glitch.

But that's just my opinion. It honestly makes no difference to me either way. I mean, I think its human nature to desire some special niches for being part of something for a long period of time, I certainly want some! But I also understand why some one would have said this to the OP and I also understand his concerns and they aren't ill-founded.