I hated today's duel.

[*Grisome]

I dunno if Mr. O posted this on the Sigil forums ever, but I remember him posting it on other forums before... and even after all my computer catastrophes, I managed to keep the link saved somehow because I really like it as a sort of reference to see how different people of the same alignments can be.
Just in case anyone might have any interest.

http://www.easydamus.com/alignment.html

[*Black_Grove]

Thanks for that link, the very first sentence in that description of Lawful makes my point perfectly

Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.

Jumping into an honor duel is clearly a total lack of honoring tradition, in fact it was blatant glaring lack of respect for traditions that apply pretty equally to all the cultures the characters come from and currently live within


Not, not, not lawful to intrude on an honor duel


J

[*deusex2]

No need to get all snarky about it. ;]

I beg your pardon for that. Didn't meant to offend anyone.
However...

Thanks for that link, the very first sentence in that description of Lawful makes my point perfectly




QUOTE
Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.



Jumping into an honor duel is clearly a total lack of honoring tradition, in fact it was blatant glaring lack of respect for traditions that apply pretty equally to all the cultures the characters come from and currently live within


Not, not, not lawful to intrude on an honor duel


J

Sooo...Just which exactly tradition would a paladin brake by interfering with this "honor" duel? Oh and, what honor are we talking about? Especially since the outcome was well known before the duel even started? And I mean, one duelist accepts the duel to the death, but states even before the duel that he refuses to take his opponent's life? Now which part of that is a tradition or honor?

Personally, If I'd played chaotic good character, I'd mix laxative into opponent's drink just before the fight(If I'd be an evil person, it would be poison), but if I'd play a lawful good paladin, I'd stop the fight when the outcome would be obvious. Especially so if one of the duelists is someone my char knows.

Oh, here's something to read about lawful good character, from the same link:

Lawful Good, "Crusader"

A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. He combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. He tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice.. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

Lawful good is the best alignment you can be because it combines honor and compassion.

Lawful good can be a dangerous alignment because it restricts freedom and criminalizes self-interest.

[*Animus]

No offense Mr. O and Vale, but I wished I had never gotten Animus involved. Because of the way you two wanted things to specifically turn out, I was forced to have Animus act extremely out of character. There is no way Animus would just stand by and let an injured man be hell blasted to oblivion. I actually applauded Xynisto when he ignorantly ran up and raised Vale because that's what I wanted to do the entire time. The only saving grace of the whole thing was that I was able to allow Animus to keep Vanya from doing something stupid and participate in the True Ressurection ritual. Now I have to RP him loosing his paladin powers because I'm fairly certain standing by and letting it happen counted as an act of evil. I hope everyone else enjoyed the duel because I sure didn't. I wish I hadn't even logged on today.

Well, that's it. I just needed to get that off my chest. It's been bugging me all day long.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Alright <.<

You didn't have to act out of character, just because the two of them were stubborn doesn't mean your character can't be either. It was your decision to make your character stand by and watch Vale get blasted to oblivion and do nothing ;) so blame not us for your own decision.

And yes... for dramatic/plot purposes we decided to have death actual meaning instead of making it be as simple as snapping fingers "Oh hey, you just died, but that's fine, we can actually just raise dead and it doesn't really cost much either" <.< Raising dead by lore is more difficult than just that and more expensive as well... but due to NPC death toll purposes true DnD deaths would be rather extensive, then also comes the availability. Also I wonder why would random drow just run up to spend a fortune to save a man he unlikely knows <.< although perhaps Xynisto and he were friends. Buuut this is just me over thinking.

Oh and paladins make mistakes... that makes them search forgiveness and that way keep their powers (of course this depends on severity, but on this case it seems relatively minor flaw considering that both parts had accepted the terms of the duel and death was the terms to end the duel.)



I didn't really mind how it ended, if Vale had won, Cratten would've been perma-killed and when Cratten won, well this happened :P

[*Animus]

Not to start an argument but, yes I did. Like I said, the entire time I wanted Animus to res Vale. What Animus would have done was first ressurect Vale then fight Cratten if he had to. He wouldn't just let the man lay there and suffer. And, if Vale gave him trouble, knock him out and tell someone to carry him away. However, I already knew you guys wanted there to be death one way or the other. I even asked Vale if it would be all right if Animus raised him and he said no. There was no way for Animus to remain IC. The most I could have done was have Animus fight off Cratten while Vale is lying there in pain, which isn't IC for Animus either. Plus, assuming Animus won, I know that it would then be Cratten that would get perma-deathed. I figured out what the duel was really about and got Vale to admit it OOCly. Hence why I wish I never got Animus involved.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

You had choice to act by your own character or at least roleplay it out, yet you didn't... it's still the same thing, you decided not to act at all. Duel for me was nothing but RP, ending result didn't mind at all... be it someone poison Crattens food before duel or people stepping forth to prevent the entire act.

Now I can't tell of others not wanting to be resurrected, but I can sure understand not to want to make it as easy as snap of fingers and break the immersion very clearly.

Also while Vale was lying in pain, why did he not try to heal him? ;) demand to stop the duel? Restrain Cratten? End the duel before it started by restraining them? There are a lot of options that could've been done. So please cease trying to put the blame on us for your own choices, eitherway there's nothing that you can do to alter the past... now the most important question is: What will you do now?

[*Lost and not Found]

Animus, based on the little you've written on this topic, I'd say the problem lies in your character being "Good" and not "Lawful".

It was a duel to the death, wasn't it?

Thus, through my tinted glassess, as long as both parties had agreed to participate on a duel to the death out of their own free will, a Lawful Good Paladin would have no qualms with the duel itself. Not even if the duel took a something less, noble, turn - as long as the rules of the duel were followed. A duel with "everything goes" does allow people to do quite a bit.

Of course it doesn't mean that a Paladin would be pleased if an obviously evil character were to win, but his hands would be tied and yet not a reason for him to start questioning his own faith.

Naturally, things would be different if it came into the Paladin's knowledge that the duel was not one of free will, and one or both of the participants had been blackmailed into participation. It would open a path for him to step in and stop the duel if in his power. Or even sent forth a chalenge for a duel to regain someone's lost honour as the last course of action if nothing else can be done to regain that honour.




*Humph* While I write posts, those two decided to write two new.

[*CheeseWedge]

Hehe.

Plus, it was their decision to play it out as it was. It's how they wanted it to be and permission was granted on both sides for the death, so it would not have been fair for you to ruin their RP because it doesn't sit well with your character.

Also, if you already knew how the outcome had to be, then why did you let your character attend the event? It's simple enough to have him accidentally miss it, and that way you don't have to complain about the predetermined aftermath. =)

This is in no way Mr. O's or Vale's fault.

[*Reptiller]

Really,I hate when people RP out "Coin Ressurections" and prefer to handles them as OOC myself . . .