Terrible Woes Of Playing A Fighter On Sigil

[*rapsam2003]

@Whitefly: Or one could always go with Fellblade as a PrC.

Edit: Also, if we're really looking at whether you can do 1,000 dpr...seriously?! Maximum damage is great, but it seems that going past a couple hundred dpr is probably overkill in most situations. Maybe that's me being new though?...

[*Whitefly]

Also, if we're really looking at whether you can do 1,000 dpr...seriously?! Maximum damage is great, but it seems that going past a couple hundred dpr is probably overkill in most situations. Maybe that's me being new though?...

Full zerk or gtfo


But seriously, if you're building a character with a greater interest in roleplaying than doing sick dps, you're probably expecting about 500 damage per round. 300 would be pretty low for a high magic server like this. It should be noted that I'm not accounting for elemental damage reduction here, so the actual highest figure is usually going to be around 900 per round.

If you're going for a power build, you want the most effect you can get. Since these kinds of builds always use dual-wielding, your damage comes in bits rather than large packets, so there's no such thing as overkill. The only exception is multishot archers, who deal large packets of damage and still have competitive damage output, but you don't really worry about it since it only affects your first three attacks in a round anyway.


My point with warlocks was more that being able to lock down lots of enemies consistently is very useful and not something everyone can do, whereas damage dealing is something everyone can do, and usually better than a warlock. If you're power building, you want to play to your class's strengths.

p.s. Oh, and I'm not ignoring melee warlocks, it's just that they're basically a trade off. You get a lot of benefits from warlock, like stuns once per round with hideous blow, charisma to saves (best bonus by far for an EDM build), see invis, haste for allies, damage reduction, a summon you can respawn infinitely, etc. etc., but you always sacrifice maximum damage potential, because warlocks don't have anything that adds damage to each attack. The whole point with high damage builds is that they multiply up damage bonuses with many attacks per round and with crits.

[*Strawberry Jam]

If you hit base damage 50 and have a 25% chance to critical x4, say max bab and haste, round it off to 8 attacks for convenience. 6 will be 50, 2 will be 200. So 700ish damage in a round isn't going to be too hard to reach.




I think most casters don't outpace warlock by much either, but they had to rest to recover their spells and warlock can go all day.

There are lots of misconceptions over psion, all of their unique defensive ac is dodge which is apparently still bugged in NWN2, even with uncanny dodge I've been told. I remember when the game came out and playing a multiclassed caster and dodge just not working at all in groups of critters.

Psion powerpoints are math'd out to be about the same as a specialized wizards spells per day. Power points like wizard spells per day, and powers available like sorcerer spells known. Unlike other classes you have to spend extra points to upgrade your powers, this doesn't happen automatically. Then you pay more power points to apply metapsionics. Psion's answer to missile storm still caps out on single target damage, and it's all elemental so it can still be resisted. You burn through it fast, also with powers like twin banishments.

Lets say you spend 200 points on defense. Then you have 200-400 points left depending on your feats and if you dumped everything into int or not. That's maybe 10-20 powers before you need to rest again, depending on how high the power you use, that could easily be only 7-15 powers cast.

I think they get a few death spells which are custom homebrew but don't obey same sorts of rules, and some of their level 8/9 powers simply don't work still (last I checked) or don't work properly.

Mages could use a mordenkainens magnificent mansion spell and psion could use energy crystals or dream sanctuary whatever.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Anything that isn't bound to magic resistance ^{(poisons, diseases, traps, auras, and indeed some spells, ability/level drains, other onhit abilities)} will be met with the quick realization that you can't heal your ails. Because you can't use magic, and restorations need magic. You can use healing kits though, but that only takes away raw damage or on going poison but still won't remove ability damage. Oh and you can't raise dead any of your allies, so screw those guys!

The AoE spell failure works like so: 75% minus concentration. And the failure keeps decreasing by 10% each round. Oh and it also works on allies, who are likely casters... so practically you're shooting yourself in the leg while giving enemy casters at best 50% chance to fail and decreasing each turn... and that's me being charitable, why'd you waste it against low level casters with just 25 concentration when you have 45 SR after all? No you'll be putting it on high end bosses, except they won't have just 25 concentration now will they? They'll likely have closer to 40-50... that spell failure doesn't look so good anymore does it? Well your allies won't be thanking you at least.

Spellproof lore is nice... you can pick one spell to be immune to. By the way, you can't become immune to spells that bypass spellresistance anyway. So it's likely just going to be immunity to bigby's forceful hand. No worries, there's 2 other bigbies to pacify you.

On 5 class levels the high saves gives you 4 to saves. ^{(which sounds less impressive than the word high)}

Best thing besides spell resistance out of mageslayer is disrupting blow... which funny enough is just as good against non-casters. And you can use it once per two minutes. So probably no more than once per fight. Which really doesn't disrupt all that many spells. Being a touch attack any miss-chance can also make it miss.

Mage Slayer seems much better on paper than it is in practice, and I can say this having made 3 different mage slayers. They're not terrible, but you're not going to convince me about it being great... at least if you try the same methods as with the fighter so far. In-fact that's going to convince me of all other things much easier. :P

[*falathara]

Thing is, casters have been buffed largely because we are a high magic setting and the original summons would not in any way keep up with other melee characters on the server.

Which reminds me (a little off topic ^^), does anyone know how long the epic gate summon lasts and whether it's worth going for?

The epic gate spell lasts about a minute... and if your original big baddie dies, it summons a regular "gate" big baddie in its place, so you get 2 summons for the price of one... with a 1 minute timer.

[*Strawberry Jam]

It's one thing to explain how it works on paper, people wont accept it, it's another thing to demonstrate it. People have said, well yes in reality you wont survive low level on your own, in reality you might not make it past level 14, in reality this and that isn't possible. Well it doesn't seem this supposed reality matches up with my reality which also conforms to the theory on paper.

There are some things in the argument that are just facts, spells on items, easy access to magic for non casters, no resting areas, a limit on the number of spells per day, limit on damage per spell, limit of DC not on par with saves. WotC fixed fighters by giving them more options, Obsidian fixed fighters, feats like using con for all saves fixed fighters, Sigils items fixed fighters, prestige classes fixed fighters ... yet still needing more fixing, but people will never be happy.

The strawman caster boogiefellow is this weird amalgamation of every casting class with every spell and full base attack and hit points too. It's a caster that doesn't exist.

As for my fighter that's impossible to play apparently, I have surplus of 30k, 2 kings tears, 2 beljurils, 2 star sapphires, a rogue stone, 3 canary diamonds, and 2 blue diamonds. I'm not sure but I'm thinking I'll be able to find an enchanter and high level items made. Somehow I have a feeling things will be easier with better equipment and not harder. =)

Items tend to support even ludicrously nonviable characters with 4 mismatched classes. It's just how the game works and how it has worked for more than a decade.

[*falathara]

Just to stop you there strawberry, if you use all of your wands and everything and you step into carceri... you will be dispelled, then the creatures will laugh at whatever AC you have, use their high-dodge chance (from displacement) and high AB to rip your character to shreds... what we are saying is that even if you get a wand of invisibility if you go into certain areas without a proper build, you will be annihilated. For this precise reason, on my main character I only go to the lake of fire, I stay out of the maze, carceri, Niflheim, and the great abyss altogether... why? because my build isn't strong enough, even with all the magic items and epic spells that she possesses.

[*Whitefly]

The epic gate spell lasts about a minute... and if your original big baddie dies, it summons a regular "gate" big baddie in its place, so you get 2 summons for the price of one... with a 1 minute timer.

So... don't touch it with a barge pole. Got it :3 Thanks ^^

[*falathara]

It's awesome for RP purposes, or... specifically for boss fights.. and that's about it :)

[*rapsam2003]

Just to stop you there strawberry, if you use all of your wands and everything and you step into carceri...

[snip]

People have been saying this kind of thing since the SJ made this thread...