Its hidden unless you're an EM (or DM).zethrenx99,Apr 15 2017 wrote: Ah I see ^^, I suppose I misunderstood. Where is the forum under?
Sure Is Quiet!
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*MimiFearthegn
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
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*DigitalDragoon
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
It seems like things rarely ever drop lately when out fighting stuff (not that i ever find much regardless). I cannot help but wonder if that is a contributating factor, combined with the holiday/spring break stuff.
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*coyotesage
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
I generally stopped playing a while back due to mostly creative differences and the feeling that the admin staff was generally tightening the ropes of expectation. The creative differences I get, to some degree. My almost completely open style does not mesh here, even though Sigil tends to be more open than most settings, it doesn't fit my Rick & Morty "literally anything is possible" tastes. So be it, I can't get too upset if people want to stick strongly to "lore" - I just didn't really understand that was so important to the server when I first started playing here 4 or so years ago.
Stuff like the OOC room though seems like an attempt to force people to "go and role play and not horseplay". People love to mess around - almost every table top game I've ever been a part of has had more messing around than actual role play, and that's been fine. Good even. At the end of the day people want to have fun and relax and engage in role play when they're ready to. That's kind of the biggest advantage, in theory, to having a persistent world that isn't time governed heavily by a DM. I know some things were brought up about server performance, but surely there could have been some accommodations made for people. From where I sit, I got the feeling that it was a "If you aren't here to role play the moment you log into the server, then we don't want you." I have a feeling this is why things have been quiet - people felt unwanted, so they left. I've seen many attempts over the years, from NWN 1 to NWN 2 servers to try and force people to role play more and clown around less, and not a single one of those attempts has worked - at least with a large player base continuing to login regularly.
I've had some great times here though and I wish the server the best, just wanted to say what I think the culprit might be. The Universe knows I've been wrong plenty of times though, so take it all with the grain of salt it's probably due. Cheers.
Stuff like the OOC room though seems like an attempt to force people to "go and role play and not horseplay". People love to mess around - almost every table top game I've ever been a part of has had more messing around than actual role play, and that's been fine. Good even. At the end of the day people want to have fun and relax and engage in role play when they're ready to. That's kind of the biggest advantage, in theory, to having a persistent world that isn't time governed heavily by a DM. I know some things were brought up about server performance, but surely there could have been some accommodations made for people. From where I sit, I got the feeling that it was a "If you aren't here to role play the moment you log into the server, then we don't want you." I have a feeling this is why things have been quiet - people felt unwanted, so they left. I've seen many attempts over the years, from NWN 1 to NWN 2 servers to try and force people to role play more and clown around less, and not a single one of those attempts has worked - at least with a large player base continuing to login regularly.
I've had some great times here though and I wish the server the best, just wanted to say what I think the culprit might be. The Universe knows I've been wrong plenty of times though, so take it all with the grain of salt it's probably due. Cheers.
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*Nerull
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
I think folks just get burned out too quick.
Sigil is a great server, I'll never change my mind about this but to realize the things that may cause problems may just bring them to light.
Larger Issues:
- Quick Leveling
- Items & Equipment, Too Easy but no wait, too difficult? But wait, how does he/she have that?
- Grandfathered characters
*This covers:
- Immense Wealth
- Player owned shops that act like cash siphons from newer players.
- Equipment only substantially gained from Immense Wealth.
*
World Interaction:
- Lack of Real, Substantial Events with lasting effects on the world
- 20347 Player Factions, Everyone wants to be a group. Forces Attention to a smaller basis than a whole.
- Primary Factions Ignored, Struggling from lack of players due to the above.
- EM's, majority contributing little. More focused on own characters. "Being EM just to be EM to have DM client access".
*Which once again revolves to how little events can be substantially, how little can be changed. How many events are completed, only to be forgotten in less than a week?
- Lack of Diversity with player interactions. We're all either nobody or an OG... or just boobs and butts.
How do you fix such things without utterly re-rolling the server? Personally, should just wipe the entire playerbase. Make everyone start fresh. Have a catastrophic event force the LoP to draw back on everything that's happened since a set point to try to avoid disaster. Heroes keep their memories for those who were present. Make a server plot to try to correct the events from transpiring.
If people really like their characters, they'll keep playing them. If they were just in it for the gear, they'll move on or make new ones. There comes a point where you have NWN2 max amount of gold, everything you'll ever need, a house, sexslaves and an obedient dog... that things just get boring.
Disclaimer:
This is just my personal opinion from my time here. Nerull speaks openly about his opinions, not everyone likes them, nor does he expect them too. Nerull still greatly enjoys the server but prefers to do so from the cover of darkness.
Cheers.
Minor Edit: Nerull likes how DLB is 3rd from the bottom. They had it coming.
Sigil is a great server, I'll never change my mind about this but to realize the things that may cause problems may just bring them to light.
Larger Issues:
- Quick Leveling
- Items & Equipment, Too Easy but no wait, too difficult? But wait, how does he/she have that?
- Grandfathered characters
*This covers:
- Immense Wealth
- Player owned shops that act like cash siphons from newer players.
- Equipment only substantially gained from Immense Wealth.
*
World Interaction:
- Lack of Real, Substantial Events with lasting effects on the world
- 20347 Player Factions, Everyone wants to be a group. Forces Attention to a smaller basis than a whole.
- Primary Factions Ignored, Struggling from lack of players due to the above.
- EM's, majority contributing little. More focused on own characters. "Being EM just to be EM to have DM client access".
*Which once again revolves to how little events can be substantially, how little can be changed. How many events are completed, only to be forgotten in less than a week?
- Lack of Diversity with player interactions. We're all either nobody or an OG... or just boobs and butts.
How do you fix such things without utterly re-rolling the server? Personally, should just wipe the entire playerbase. Make everyone start fresh. Have a catastrophic event force the LoP to draw back on everything that's happened since a set point to try to avoid disaster. Heroes keep their memories for those who were present. Make a server plot to try to correct the events from transpiring.
If people really like their characters, they'll keep playing them. If they were just in it for the gear, they'll move on or make new ones. There comes a point where you have NWN2 max amount of gold, everything you'll ever need, a house, sexslaves and an obedient dog... that things just get boring.
Disclaimer:
This is just my personal opinion from my time here. Nerull speaks openly about his opinions, not everyone likes them, nor does he expect them too. Nerull still greatly enjoys the server but prefers to do so from the cover of darkness.
Cheers.
Minor Edit: Nerull likes how DLB is 3rd from the bottom. They had it coming.
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*Itikar
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Out of curiosity how many SCoD players have advertised the server to people who do not play on it or who do not play NWN2?
I saw around the web some old posts from Agony Aunt from three years ago and that was all.
I speak for example of stuff like this →https://www.reddit.com/r/neverwinternig ... ly_to_new/
If we do not advetise anywhere and keep the knowledge of how awesome the server is only among ourselves it is really no surprise that the active population will eventually decrease.
Other ideas:
- Implement Mick's proposal for OOC room so we can have again idle there → players call players. Few except for die-hard Planescape fans would log on a server with 10 players online when there are three other servers with 20 or even 30 users in the same moment.
- Equipment and leveling. I think this does have a role, especially for new players. Undersigil already is a tad too deadly for the average newbie and going to higher level areas depends on whether one finds a PC merchant online with the gear and decent prices. There should be an alternative, even if less effective that could guarantee decent equipment to at least continue leveling. Also I have read around of older players reporting that now grinding awards way fewer loot. Is this confirmed? If it is this will worsen the situation, by making prices for equipment even higher. And that's really not needed.
- Last but not least, IC interaction and involvement. I am sincerely convinced that a good player is better than a DM in stimulating roleplay and involving people in plots. In particular I think there should be an attitude to share, within reason and consistency, what is going on, and even to initiate plots autonomously, especially if they can involve outsiders. This, I think, is essentially what Mr. O said a while ago when he suggested that factions should have been engines of interaction instead of exclusive clubs. To this I may add that it would be nice to have some journalists who write on SIGIS the main events, in particular what could reasonably be mainstream, and also some gossip and other stuff. I have seen this used elsewhere with very positive results. Also a museum that illustrates history of past events and plots would be very nice to have, as a side addition.
While I think these last three points may play a role in bumping player count a little, I do believe that they are not so decisive to the point to bring us on top of the scry. I think that advertising on the other hand can have a much more positive impact by bringing new, fresh players to the server. So maybe we could organize an advertising team, that for example take screenshots of new released contents and post them on vault boards, reddit and other places.
About player numbers I also noticed, and it is an impression so take it for what it is, that Sigil's numbers did not really drop -that- much, rather the playercount of two servers that used to be below us rose quite a bit. I wonder what happened, but I guess it'll be difficult to learn.
I saw around the web some old posts from Agony Aunt from three years ago and that was all.
I speak for example of stuff like this →https://www.reddit.com/r/neverwinternig ... ly_to_new/
If we do not advetise anywhere and keep the knowledge of how awesome the server is only among ourselves it is really no surprise that the active population will eventually decrease.
Other ideas:
- Implement Mick's proposal for OOC room so we can have again idle there → players call players. Few except for die-hard Planescape fans would log on a server with 10 players online when there are three other servers with 20 or even 30 users in the same moment.
- Equipment and leveling. I think this does have a role, especially for new players. Undersigil already is a tad too deadly for the average newbie and going to higher level areas depends on whether one finds a PC merchant online with the gear and decent prices. There should be an alternative, even if less effective that could guarantee decent equipment to at least continue leveling. Also I have read around of older players reporting that now grinding awards way fewer loot. Is this confirmed? If it is this will worsen the situation, by making prices for equipment even higher. And that's really not needed.
- Last but not least, IC interaction and involvement. I am sincerely convinced that a good player is better than a DM in stimulating roleplay and involving people in plots. In particular I think there should be an attitude to share, within reason and consistency, what is going on, and even to initiate plots autonomously, especially if they can involve outsiders. This, I think, is essentially what Mr. O said a while ago when he suggested that factions should have been engines of interaction instead of exclusive clubs. To this I may add that it would be nice to have some journalists who write on SIGIS the main events, in particular what could reasonably be mainstream, and also some gossip and other stuff. I have seen this used elsewhere with very positive results. Also a museum that illustrates history of past events and plots would be very nice to have, as a side addition.
While I think these last three points may play a role in bumping player count a little, I do believe that they are not so decisive to the point to bring us on top of the scry. I think that advertising on the other hand can have a much more positive impact by bringing new, fresh players to the server. So maybe we could organize an advertising team, that for example take screenshots of new released contents and post them on vault boards, reddit and other places.
About player numbers I also noticed, and it is an impression so take it for what it is, that Sigil's numbers did not really drop -that- much, rather the playercount of two servers that used to be below us rose quite a bit. I wonder what happened, but I guess it'll be difficult to learn.
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*Am Not Here
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
i wouldnt take into account levelling and item acquisition too much when comes to player scarcity. fewer and fewer are the old characters who actually have items not findable anymore, and those who are wealthy is because of many hours of trading , or gambling, until it was profitable.
the level cap on items makes so that is very rare that someone has items others can't obtain, and i dont think people weould enjoy slower levelling all that much, more so if enforced. if someone wants to slow levelling hey just have to avoid grindind and instead simply rp in safe zones, or get in events.
i dread to play in server where to max lvl you need a year or so. THAT would indeed separate more the difference between older and newer players.
and more so, the more time you need to dedicate to levelling the less you'll dedicate to RP, unless perhaps with a strict levelling system which requires you to do RP like in those serves where you can't advance without a dm and it takes you a year or more to cap :P
as for rewards it may be it has decreased, in some places it has, not sure if in all of them
there're not many buyers right now, several player stores have items in multiple copies too, and some had to dump prices
undersigil is a nice area for this reason: is one of the few areas where using simple consumables has its use. potions, tricks , that stuff, it does help you survive, it's something of a tactical aspect later areas lose in favor of level, equipments or better items
some players do come here to simply relax and not get bothered or can't dedicate too much to it , perhaps while sorting work out while they play, i don't hold it against who stays quiet or simple in their rp. i more of have it against who makes snark remarks toward those abovementioned, cheers.
i didn't play in two of the most crowded servers, baldur's gate and trinity. the latter is a story driven campaign doable in co-op? the former is the more familiar faerun pw, though i wont shrink it's popularity to just that , not having played there, so i'm not privvy of what differences besides setting there are
as for vault wipes....did the other servers ever needed to do that, intentionally?
the level cap on items makes so that is very rare that someone has items others can't obtain, and i dont think people weould enjoy slower levelling all that much, more so if enforced. if someone wants to slow levelling hey just have to avoid grindind and instead simply rp in safe zones, or get in events.
i dread to play in server where to max lvl you need a year or so. THAT would indeed separate more the difference between older and newer players.
and more so, the more time you need to dedicate to levelling the less you'll dedicate to RP, unless perhaps with a strict levelling system which requires you to do RP like in those serves where you can't advance without a dm and it takes you a year or more to cap :P
as for rewards it may be it has decreased, in some places it has, not sure if in all of them
there're not many buyers right now, several player stores have items in multiple copies too, and some had to dump prices
undersigil is a nice area for this reason: is one of the few areas where using simple consumables has its use. potions, tricks , that stuff, it does help you survive, it's something of a tactical aspect later areas lose in favor of level, equipments or better items
some players do come here to simply relax and not get bothered or can't dedicate too much to it , perhaps while sorting work out while they play, i don't hold it against who stays quiet or simple in their rp. i more of have it against who makes snark remarks toward those abovementioned, cheers.
i didn't play in two of the most crowded servers, baldur's gate and trinity. the latter is a story driven campaign doable in co-op? the former is the more familiar faerun pw, though i wont shrink it's popularity to just that , not having played there, so i'm not privvy of what differences besides setting there are
as for vault wipes....did the other servers ever needed to do that, intentionally?
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*Nerull
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
The only issue with an Item Overhaul is the people who are not going to be okay with forfeiting their old "Overpowered" items
Disclaimer:[As in, items people feel are unbalanced. Personally, I haven't seen anything off the wall. I've been through the servers item lists top to bottom many-a-time. I do remember that Orange named scythe I bought though... damn was it good... for a scythe user. This statement didn't target anyone specifically. In fact, I can vouch for Mausman below. I've seen his CQC, so to speak. In fact, I've seen everyones CQC. I spent days, weeks, sifting through characters. Checking each and every inventory of every PC logged in. I was a busy bee. That's how I found things that didn't belong... Overall, Kelths pretty tame item-wise. I'm not sure how the old dog pulls it off, it's gotta be the badass music.]
Which in turn brings up Grandfathering again. Plus, to reiterate, I don't feel as if leveling should be "Oh it took me a year to reach level 30" but at least "A good month or two to hit mid 20." Speed leveling but compensating weakness with player given buffs or bought/given player store gear can break a "quick and easy" leveling system. I remember when sigil had less than ten players for a long while. Then it was full. Numbers always change. In truth, it will come down to what server can survive the longest. What server is more adapted to change along with its playerbase.
With that... I do like how everyone is on the same page here... and without flaming! Nerull is surprised.
Disclaimer:[As in, items people feel are unbalanced. Personally, I haven't seen anything off the wall. I've been through the servers item lists top to bottom many-a-time. I do remember that Orange named scythe I bought though... damn was it good... for a scythe user. This statement didn't target anyone specifically. In fact, I can vouch for Mausman below. I've seen his CQC, so to speak. In fact, I've seen everyones CQC. I spent days, weeks, sifting through characters. Checking each and every inventory of every PC logged in. I was a busy bee. That's how I found things that didn't belong... Overall, Kelths pretty tame item-wise. I'm not sure how the old dog pulls it off, it's gotta be the badass music.]
Which in turn brings up Grandfathering again. Plus, to reiterate, I don't feel as if leveling should be "Oh it took me a year to reach level 30" but at least "A good month or two to hit mid 20." Speed leveling but compensating weakness with player given buffs or bought/given player store gear can break a "quick and easy" leveling system. I remember when sigil had less than ten players for a long while. Then it was full. Numbers always change. In truth, it will come down to what server can survive the longest. What server is more adapted to change along with its playerbase.
With that... I do like how everyone is on the same page here... and without flaming! Nerull is surprised.
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*Summer Wind
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
While I have understood SCoD's attitude about grandfathering old content, I have never agreed with it. So, if it resulted in a well thought out, balanced, and appropriately powered and scaled approach to equipment, I for one would happy sacrifice my currently overpowered and game breaking equipment.Nerull,Apr 17 2017 wrote: The only issue with an Item Overhaul is the people who are not going to be okay with forfeiting their old "Overpowered" items. Which in turn brings up Grandfathering again.
I don't expect that to be a popular position, but I did say that the fixes necessary at this point would be hard and cause a ruckus.