I Was Thinking . . .

[*SigTerm]

"Plane of Ooze" (no idea where it is)

its in the plane of earth, you'll know it when you se it... i stumbled upon it by acident thast the only reason i know.

The problem of SCoD has currently, is that it is a server that has gone through several different building philosophies. You could probably ask most builders/players/DMs how they view that SCoD should be played, and get different answers almost every time.

I dint know the wheal was reinvented so to speak in SCoD, but yes I agree with if i asked some one how SCoD should be played i'd get so many diffrent answers i'll probably be sick.

Overall the reason for this post is about us who think something needs to be buffed/nerfed as we all have our on way of playing as you said because of our wants/needs. If we all perhaps had a idea on how it was ment to be played. as in not going from the rats in the swers to brux, then to Astral Planes or plane of ice. basicaly playing hop scotch around the planes because we are pushing the envelope just to get more EXP faster. In the end of all that, I genraly do a rebuild atleast 2 times till i get to max level becasue my gear is bad. heck I got a character who is ECL 14, she has no magic gear on her but the weapons gained from the quests because reasons that upset me greatly.. and she has almost no gold because she keeps dieing, like less than 1k poor.

now, as said many diffrent results are gunna happen, but i'm sure there is a average common ground that stuff can be based of of i assume?

I apoligize for not quoting you all with a response but thank you for your input it helps me gain a bit of understanding I hope :)

"Releveling twice because of bad gear" may happen if you skip the bazaar.

Basically, somewhere in the middle of the slaughtering frenzy, character needs to stop, go to bazaar, sell all the junk they carry, find a player-controlled merchant, talk to them and buy gear. By level 3..6 you definitely should be able to afford at least one +4 tier items, and if you get lucky you may be able to get full set of them.

However, I've seen people who REALLY rush through leveling, and may easily end up in limbo or in abyss with starting gear. Or someone who kept trying to rush Bugbears at level 2 or 3 with a light armored character that had neither a shield nor a combat expertise, with GateCrasher enabled.

This kind of rush will only lead to additional pain down the road.

When you "keep losing gold", it means you need to visit bazaar and buy planar coins. When you "keep dying", it means you can't handle the area, and either need a group, or need to find another area.

And that's where all the other planes come into play.

Rather than requesting something to be adjusted, the game requires player to sit back, think about it a bit and try a different strategy. In general, there IS a good strategy. A character that can't deal with abyss at the moment, may do surprisingly well in Minauros, on Mount Celestia, etc. Someone who can't handle Mercuria may perform great on plane of Fire.

Sit back, determine weakness/problem of the character, and find a place where this weakness does not occur or find a way to address the weakness.

Sigil is very easy in terms of acquiring gear, by the way. It is not like experience on certain other server where full set of +3 items can require a month or more and can easily cost close to 100k gold.

[*DaftyXIII]

EDIT : I dont know the setting all that well honsetly, thus i dont understand fuly why the setting has anything to do with outsiders late game. but...

And that's the point where you go and play planescape: torment or read D&D books.

It is not a matter of "past lore".

There's a whole cosmology. Prime worlds (like toril), and many planes that lie outside of them. The planes (or worlds) can be related to an element, a fundamental force (like law, chaos, evil, good, life death - those are fundamental forces), or lie somewhere inbetween.

Related (3.5) D&D books would be manual of the planes, Fiendish Codex I and Fiendish Codex II. There are many others.

here I thought we where beginning to talk like adults in the golem post i made, guess not.
Point is I will not let this topic get locked because you try to push me over the edge when here the rest of us are having a simple discussion as adults.

I apologize but I refuse to participate in your games of degradation to another verbally any further.

EDIT I could have blown what you said out of proportion but, you sounded one to chuckle with grin with your statment

[*SigTerm]

EDIT : I dont know the setting all that well honsetly, thus i dont understand fuly why the setting has anything to do with outsiders late game. but...

And that's the point where you go and play planescape: torment or read D&D books.

It is not a matter of "past lore".

There's a whole cosmology. Prime worlds (like toril), and many planes that lie outside of them. The planes (or worlds) can be related to an element, a fundamental force (like law, chaos, evil, good, life death - those are fundamental forces), or lie somewhere inbetween.

Related (3.5) D&D books would be manual of the planes, Fiendish Codex I and Fiendish Codex II. There are many others.

here I thought we where beginning to talk like adults in the golem post i made, guess not.
Point is I will not let this topic get locked because you try to push me over the edge when here the rest of us are having a simple discussion as adults.

I apologize but I refuse to participate in your games of degradation to another verbally any further.

EDIT I could have blown what you said out of proportion but, you sounded one to chuckle with grin with your statment

> because you try to push me over the edge

(o_O)

What?

> I could have blown what you said out of proportion but

Yes, you did it blow out of proportion. Way out of proportion.
And then you talk about "adult discussion"? The hell?

Do you seriously think I have nothing better to do waste time here trying to "subtly push over the edge" you specifically?

There's a freaking 25 years of lore.

Just take a look at this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... _rulebooks

The most relevant books are in DND 3.5 section, and there are 30 or 40 of them. A very big portion of that applies to sigil.

Planescape: torment and books I listed would give you a decent crash course on the lore and explain what it is about, plus the game is a damn masterpiece.

But then you suddenly decided that the only reason I could possibly post this information is to piss your off. Yeah, totally makes sense.

[*Veylandemar]

My take on the above quote was that it was meant as encouragement to further familiarize yourself with the setting as you appear to be looking for further clarification.

Planescape as a setting rather differs in its core concepts from most of the 'Prime' D&D settings and a lot of the more detailed lore can really only be found in the old 2nd Edition sourcebooks. Portions have been reused and repainted in the 3.5 books recommended by SigTerm and admittedly, those books are somewhat easier to find than the older Planescape materials.

Personally, I can't recommend 'Faces of Evil: The Fiends' highly enough. While it doesn't provide any 'stats', it provides mostly 'in-character' studies and accounts of the various lower planes and their denizens.

As for your question on Outsiders in general and their frequency of occurrence in high leveled play, It rather falls as a quirk of the setting and to a degree, a limitation of what we have available in NWN2.
On a Prime World, your typical 'Big bads' might be Dragons, cult leaders, epic monsters, Vampire Patriarchs or Lich Lords, but from a Planar perspective, you have a rather more limited scope.

The thing about the Planes is that most of the things that live on them are meant to be there or have some tie to the Plane itself - Fundamentally or by alignment. While that's not to say that there *can't* be a Vampire Lord and his castle of thralls on the Quasi-Elemental Plane of Salt, it is easier to fit the concept with the Plane of Shadow, The Negative Elemental Plane, The Grey Wastes or even an Astral or Ethereal pocket.
So one easily falls into the idea of 'This is the Abyss - Here are ten varieties of demon.'
Nevermind that there are mercenaries beyond-count, dark wizards and mean nasty folks, petitioners and otherwise, who could all be encountered as 'typical bads' therein. But is it iconic?
Does fighting Harlow Bent-Horns, Rakish Scoundrel and his Band of War Golems on the fiery plains of Pazunia offer the same high-fantasy payoff as descending into the Abyss and bashing around the big, flame-fanged demons on their own turf?

Attempting to tumble back onto my train of thought, The presence of Outsiders on these planes is expected - Each Plane has its' own native hierarchy similar to how demons and devils rank up, ascending in power and ECL.

Mechanus, for example, has an entire hierarchy of Modrons, each with individual roles in their society, combat capabilities and definitive expectations on what they might do should you encounter them. That's not to say that if Mechanus were to be expanded upon that it would be 'All Modrons, All the time!' but it does serve to fulfill the base expectations of those not familiar with the intimate details of the setting.

For one last clarification, though, don't take any of this as an attack, personal or veiled.
If there are any particular resources that you're looking to obtain, we're happy to try to point you in the right direction.
We're not some secret cabal hoarding our knowledge, we're passionate and we want to share the setting with those who aren't familiar so that you might love it like we do.
We just mightn't be eloquent in a text-based-medium.

~V

[*MimiFearthegn]

EDIT : I dont know the setting all that well honsetly, thus i dont understand fuly why the setting has anything to do with outsiders late game. but... I like to think that SCoD is a sandbox in its own way making it uniqe to the other servers. So why not break the cycle? i mean some of us spark events all the time that can very well be considering breaking the cycle... SCoD is my prefered NWN2 server out there right now as, yes its like 90% of games where you kill get exp and loot at the same time, but thast not all sigil has to offer.. like i said it feels liek  a sandbox to me as SCoD is what the player makes it really. if i'm amking any sense at all, its why i'm saying or feel i soudl say that waht has hapened in the past lore wise is not the present SCoD we make the story of SCoD everyday of what it is or what it will come to be :)

Sigil as a server is very sandboxy, yes. But its a sandbox with planar flavor.

So in D&D you have your outer planes and inner planes, which comprise most of the areas that we'd consider making for Sigil.

If you go "by the book" (which many builders like to do), basically all your suggested monsters for the outer planes are outsiders, and all the available monsters for the inner planes are elementals. Sure, there might be an exception here or there, but that's basically what you're going to find when researching ideas. Even your animal and plant type things tend to have templates like celestial or fiendish which then mark them as "outsider."

This then comes with baggage like DR and elemental resistances.

Of course, you can validly argue that maybe module design should trump exact D&D lore, but that's basically why things ended up the way they have.

[*DaftyXIII]

EDIT : I dont know the setting all that well honsetly, thus i dont understand fuly why the setting has anything to do with outsiders late game. but...

And that's the point where you go and play planescape: torment or read D&D books.

It is not a matter of "past lore".

There's a whole cosmology. Prime worlds (like toril), and many planes that lie outside of them. The planes (or worlds) can be related to an element, a fundamental force (like law, chaos, evil, good, life death - those are fundamental forces), or lie somewhere inbetween.

Related (3.5) D&D books would be manual of the planes, Fiendish Codex I and Fiendish Codex II. There are many others.

here I thought we where beginning to talk like adults in the golem post i made, guess not.
Point is I will not let this topic get locked because you try to push me over the edge when here the rest of us are having a simple discussion as adults.

I apologize but I refuse to participate in your games of degradation to another verbally any further.

EDIT I could have blown what you said out of proportion but, you sounded one to chuckle with grin with your statment

> because you try to push me over the edge

(o_O)

What?

> I could have blown what you said out of proportion but

Yes, you did it blow out of proportion. Way out of proportion.
And then you talk about "adult discussion"? The hell?

Do you seriously think I have nothing better to do waste time here trying to "subtly push over the edge" you specifically?

There's a freaking 25 years of lore.

Just take a look at this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... _rulebooks

The most relevant books are in DND 3.5 section, and there are 30 or 40 of them. A very big portion of that applies to sigil.

Planescape: torment and books I listed would give you a decent crash course on the lore and explain what it is about, plus the game is a damn masterpiece.

But then you suddenly decided that the only reason I could possibly post this information is to piss your off. Yeah, totally makes sense.

It's the way it was worded, try to relax I'll admit i'm wrong ok! you didnt leave a good impression is all on another thread with statments to me like

Basically, don't play it if it ain't your thing

and

You won't make any money as a golem master.

when i am


anyhow, I got lots of mixed vibes from you at the time, could be that i'm having a bad day so almost anything to me seems negative.

So I'll bite the bullet if that's what you want.

anyhow lets move on with life if posible. . .

[*rapsam2003]

[*SigTerm]

anyhow, I got lots of mixed vibes from you at the time, could be that i'm having a bad day so almost anything to me seems negative.

Dude, non-verbal information does not transmit through a text medium. There's no intonation, no body language, meaning usually when people start reading the stuff, their brain starts filling the blanks ... using imagination. This applies to "vibes", " sounded one to chuckle with grin with your statement". How could I sound like anything if you didn't even hear me say anything?

So, yeah, it is a bad day.

Just keep in mind the issue with text posts next time. Mostly because when people overreact out in response to a normal advice it is very weird.