I've only been here for a little while, but I do have to say that I haven't found much problem getting into groups. In fact, the only thing hard about it is trying to find one around. I tend to mold a thousand and one reasons RP-wise to find a a way to insert myself in someone's party if I feel like. Hell, I even get invitations when I log in without even asking by random players that I don't even know.
I think as a player, you just need to assert the way you rp if you really want to be part of a particular group in any particular time. If you are adamant that your character's personality is uncompromising and you shut down your creativity to find ways to "invite yourself" into a group then you naturally won't be welcomed.
In my opinion, it's not about the group being "elitist or cliquish" it's the player who complains about this who seems to have a tunnel-vision about how the world and all the other players should revolve around them and their character. I've seen many cases of this kind of character-centric philosophy that some players get into that makes them think that if their PC can't group easily, with no effort or creativity on their part, then people are just cliquish on the server when really it is just a lack of motivation to find appropriate reasons to be a part of something. Not to say that they are too blame for their own behavior or initiatives, but I see that many players here have chimed in saying they had really no problems with how things are so far and I barely see a DM enough to think that they are favoring a specific group of "elite players".
SCoD's cliques
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*Minotaurs88
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Groups/Cliques are going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. Its just how things roll around in the cycle.
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*Fell Star
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
All of these posts have discussed interesting points, perspectives, and solutions!
I feel that the best way to approach this and any topic regarding Sigil is to do so with an attitude of thanksgiving and constant love for your fellow players OOC. By putting on these rose colored glasses of companionship:
1) Instead of seeing cliques, you will see convenient RP opportunities! If you are feeling alone, and see many "cliques" around you, instead of grumbling about it, try joining! You may be pleasantly surprised to find that if your character makes an effort to get involved with like-minded characters, they will be readily adopted in.
As a new player, it is your responsibility to introduce your characters into roleplay. Others cannot be expected to do that for you. So if you are feeling out of the loop, think up some interesting RP hooks to get involved with other player characters. Here are some examples to help get you started:
1) Offer to perform a special service (such as a deliver messages, be a guinea pig for the evil scientist's experiment, or play magic tricks...)
2) Offer IC to teach a skill, or request to be apprenticed
3) Spill something accidentally on the lap of another character
4) Let your character mistake another player character as a long lost cousin
And there are many more ideas out there, so go get 'em, tiger!
2) By putting on your rose-colored glasses, you can learn to be conscious of new players and will strive to welcome others. We are a community. Though you are not required to make time for every greenie out there, it is admirable to reach out and connect with the people around you as often as you can. After all, this game is made enjoyable by the people who play it, and this includes you. =)
So how can you help as a more experienced player? You can help by doing something as simple as saying "Hello and welcome!" in an OOC tell, or as complex as offering to tour a new player around IC. And in every circumstance, do not underestimate your ability to bring a smile to another person's face!
I feel that the best way to approach this and any topic regarding Sigil is to do so with an attitude of thanksgiving and constant love for your fellow players OOC. By putting on these rose colored glasses of companionship:
1) Instead of seeing cliques, you will see convenient RP opportunities! If you are feeling alone, and see many "cliques" around you, instead of grumbling about it, try joining! You may be pleasantly surprised to find that if your character makes an effort to get involved with like-minded characters, they will be readily adopted in.
As a new player, it is your responsibility to introduce your characters into roleplay. Others cannot be expected to do that for you. So if you are feeling out of the loop, think up some interesting RP hooks to get involved with other player characters. Here are some examples to help get you started:
1) Offer to perform a special service (such as a deliver messages, be a guinea pig for the evil scientist's experiment, or play magic tricks...)
2) Offer IC to teach a skill, or request to be apprenticed
3) Spill something accidentally on the lap of another character
4) Let your character mistake another player character as a long lost cousin
And there are many more ideas out there, so go get 'em, tiger!
2) By putting on your rose-colored glasses, you can learn to be conscious of new players and will strive to welcome others. We are a community. Though you are not required to make time for every greenie out there, it is admirable to reach out and connect with the people around you as often as you can. After all, this game is made enjoyable by the people who play it, and this includes you. =)
So how can you help as a more experienced player? You can help by doing something as simple as saying "Hello and welcome!" in an OOC tell, or as complex as offering to tour a new player around IC. And in every circumstance, do not underestimate your ability to bring a smile to another person's face!
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*Ravel's Heart
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
I have seen this same thread countless times on several servers. Some topics come up again and again, and this is one that seems to crop up right around this time in a server's development. (In fact, it may be a bit late, which I think is indicative of how good the playerbase is here.)
I do not know that I have ever seen this thread filled with as many productive comments as this one has been. It is nice to have some RPers who have been around a while to offer really valuable suggestions.
I wanted to emphasize something that Fell Star said:
Within the first few moments of a good game, the player is hooked.
Online, though, this is reversed. The player is not being hooked at all. The player has to hook others.
When I first started playing online, this was the hardest thing for me to understand. It took a very long time for me to "break in" because I did not understand that people were not interested in my character.
I remember finally asking another player, "How do you attract people's attention?" We started talking about "the hook". To me, this is the single most difficult thing in online RP to this day, both as a player and as a DM.
In fact, when I talk to people whom I respect and admire as RPers, that is probably what I ask about the most. Because no matter how established your character is on the server, there are always new players and characters who know nothing about your character, and do not care who he or she is.
There are a lot of things that go into being a good RPer, but being able to continually "hook" people is an important part of it.
Fell listed a number of specific suggestions for plot hooks. These are great. What is more important, though, is to understand how to make people notice your character. These aare my suggestions. I am sure that others will have more.
1) Be vulnerable
People who know me are probably rolling their eyes because I say this all the time.
It is so counterintuitive in ways, especially where people are competing to make the most powerful battle machine, but vulnerability attracts interest.
If your character obviously needs help, others will spring to provide it. It is incredible how well this works.
2) Be ignorant
I do not mean, "Be rude!" I mean, don't know-it-all. Even if you know every wrd of plansecape lore that has ever been written, even if you know every portal in the Cage, even if you know every effect of every spell, feat, and ability in the game, don't let your character know!
Make glaring mistakes where others can see. Use spells that backfire or do not act the way you intend. Give other characters the opportunity to teach your toon something, even if it is something that you as a player already know.
3) Emote! Emote! Emote!
This does not necessarily mean "speak".
Not every character would necessarily simply approach a group of strangers and begin talking. Some characters are shy, or furtive, or aloof. You can convery what your character is doing and thinking by describing his interest in what others are doing. Watch people from the corner of your eyes, then blush and look away when they notice you. Follow them furtively then retreat deeper into the shadows when you are spotted. Convey interest in other people's RP, even while RPing not interacting with them.
Sitting at the next table and reading a book will not earn you a look. Overhearing their conversating, reacting to it, and then burying your nose in the book when they notice will most likely force people to respond to you.
4) When all else fails...make contact.
This is actually a great way to make a person notice you, but be prepared for an IC whuppin' if it is the approach you take! ;)
Physically touching another character almost necessitates that people respond to you, and once you are interacting with a player in a group, the whole group responds. So, go ahead an pick the huge barbarian's pocket. Walk into the scary-looking wizard and spill your drink. Grab the sorceress' robes and beg (or demand) that she remove the curse she placed on your husband/wife/child/mother.
These more or less guarantee that the "clique" that you could not break into will take notice, and interact. Once you have played with them, you're not an outsider anymore, and (if your character survives!) the next time, everyone has some common past to draw on.
I am curious, as always, to hear about how other people break in with new characters. How do you make people notice you? How do you make people interested in you? How do you get your new character involved?
I do not know that I have ever seen this thread filled with as many productive comments as this one has been. It is nice to have some RPers who have been around a while to offer really valuable suggestions.
I wanted to emphasize something that Fell Star said:
I think that this is one of the two most important differences between online RP and playing PnP or playing single player mods. In single player, and to a lesser extent in PnP, the player is the one being hooked. The player's village is under attack, his city is infected with plague, he wakes up with no memories on a mortuary slab, his father's closest friend has betrayed and murdered him and stolen his crown.wrote:As a new player, it is your responsibility to introduce your characters into roleplay. Others cannot be expected to do that for you. So if you are feeling out of the loop, think up some interesting RP hooks to get involved with other player characters.
Within the first few moments of a good game, the player is hooked.
Online, though, this is reversed. The player is not being hooked at all. The player has to hook others.
When I first started playing online, this was the hardest thing for me to understand. It took a very long time for me to "break in" because I did not understand that people were not interested in my character.
I remember finally asking another player, "How do you attract people's attention?" We started talking about "the hook". To me, this is the single most difficult thing in online RP to this day, both as a player and as a DM.
In fact, when I talk to people whom I respect and admire as RPers, that is probably what I ask about the most. Because no matter how established your character is on the server, there are always new players and characters who know nothing about your character, and do not care who he or she is.
There are a lot of things that go into being a good RPer, but being able to continually "hook" people is an important part of it.
Fell listed a number of specific suggestions for plot hooks. These are great. What is more important, though, is to understand how to make people notice your character. These aare my suggestions. I am sure that others will have more.
1) Be vulnerable
People who know me are probably rolling their eyes because I say this all the time.
It is so counterintuitive in ways, especially where people are competing to make the most powerful battle machine, but vulnerability attracts interest.
If your character obviously needs help, others will spring to provide it. It is incredible how well this works.
2) Be ignorant
I do not mean, "Be rude!" I mean, don't know-it-all. Even if you know every wrd of plansecape lore that has ever been written, even if you know every portal in the Cage, even if you know every effect of every spell, feat, and ability in the game, don't let your character know!
Make glaring mistakes where others can see. Use spells that backfire or do not act the way you intend. Give other characters the opportunity to teach your toon something, even if it is something that you as a player already know.
3) Emote! Emote! Emote!
This does not necessarily mean "speak".
Not every character would necessarily simply approach a group of strangers and begin talking. Some characters are shy, or furtive, or aloof. You can convery what your character is doing and thinking by describing his interest in what others are doing. Watch people from the corner of your eyes, then blush and look away when they notice you. Follow them furtively then retreat deeper into the shadows when you are spotted. Convey interest in other people's RP, even while RPing not interacting with them.
Sitting at the next table and reading a book will not earn you a look. Overhearing their conversating, reacting to it, and then burying your nose in the book when they notice will most likely force people to respond to you.
4) When all else fails...make contact.
This is actually a great way to make a person notice you, but be prepared for an IC whuppin' if it is the approach you take! ;)
Physically touching another character almost necessitates that people respond to you, and once you are interacting with a player in a group, the whole group responds. So, go ahead an pick the huge barbarian's pocket. Walk into the scary-looking wizard and spill your drink. Grab the sorceress' robes and beg (or demand) that she remove the curse she placed on your husband/wife/child/mother.
These more or less guarantee that the "clique" that you could not break into will take notice, and interact. Once you have played with them, you're not an outsider anymore, and (if your character survives!) the next time, everyone has some common past to draw on.
I am curious, as always, to hear about how other people break in with new characters. How do you make people notice you? How do you make people interested in you? How do you get your new character involved?