Where'd All The Good People Go?

[*Er_Nano_Infame]

sigil's power and laws system and chaotic life favor abuse and loopholes, something a good characters usually doesnt want to resort to. if they do something that break the law to further a good deed they best not be caught, but to do so (if they wish so) they must use strategies , schemes, guile, lies and so on, like any other criminal or survivor, things that often are more found by the other alignments, tendentially being more used to such things. and to preserve the good alignment they must be capable to discern where to stop and where to push without compromising (too much) their purposes. and if they dont want to break laws but still to outmatch evil doers, then they must be several moves ahead than their foes.
so to say, to actually get better results , good characters in sigil should be and act more intelligent and deceiving than evil ones, and expect compromises

[*Rainbow Prism]

On the other hand, anyone can play general good character, like Sensate who enjoys his life in place ful of experiences unlike in any other cities...

[*Selebius]

An interesting point of view, nano.

However good does not always have stick to law. You can have a CG Anarchist for example- somebody who follows his inner moral compass more than written rules.

But as you said- this character might soon be called a lawbreaker and the authorities might not be happy with what he does.

So lawbreaker but not a villain.... hm. Might be interesting.....


@Prism:

I found good sensates easy to play, yes. Good aligned Ciphers, Signers, Godsmen and even indeps work well, too.

Sinkers, MKs, Bleakers OTOH.... well. :P

[*Er_Nano_Infame]

On the other hand, anyone can play general good character, like Sensate who enjoys his life in place ful of experiences unlike in any other cities...

sure, but even such a general good character might have to face the necessity of a conflict that wouldn't leave them in peace or unbothered , sooner or later. unless they ignore, retreat or submit.

@ selebius: a pragmatical approach for good doers, which ironically sort of contrast with the principle of belief that guides the planes, ideologically speaking. in such regard, good doers may have to exploit whatever ''loopholes of goodhood'' (dont ask me what those would be, just being theoretical :P ) to pragmatically get results in face of difficulties , without disappointing their principles (or their gods)

[*Selebius]

....you just described a day in life of Julius, my MK pally :P.


The main problem is that good accepts no excuses.
You cannot rationalize doing something bad and get away with it. DnD offers the way of 'Atonement' but even that one requires the subject to really regret what she did.

He got his share of alignment shifts already as his job sometimes requires him to act in icky ways and he rarely has an opportunity to do something 'good'.

His fall is a matter of time.

[*Er_Nano_Infame]

So lawbreaker but not a villain.... hm. Might be interesting.....

and you just described a day in life of robin hood . at least the romantic version of him. ;)


hmm, well, how the ''do bad things to bad people and good things to good people'' was considered to be, again? :P

whole point is, is very , very hard for good ones not to be inevitably compromised in the endeavour of their good doings in a place like sigil. but such arch can be inscribed in what is their personal fight against a certain evil(s) so that at least they can hopefully accomplish their function and die (or fall) happily for the sake of that or those they defend...ehem...one way to look at it. necessities of the conflict, i suppose.
sure it may happen them to convert a evil one to a more even behaviour too!

[*Lucereflame]

Cookie, Ve'gariu Solaris, Godrick a tun of my chars are good aligned.. but its just so much fun playing Archer and Rose that i tend not to flock to them

[*Archangel]

First, yes I would love to play on a raveloft server ;)

And yes, the setting does contribute to pushing away, or ostracizing good characters. I've played good characters, and am starting another one, and (hopefully this new one will be the exception but) they always tend to come face to face with things they cannot tolerate, nor do anything about. There is an element of things that forces players of good PCs to walk a very thin line to not metagame, and then you have the inability to make a difference in the grand scheme.

Examples:
Trying not to meta: currently I started playing a paladin from Krynn. Her first meetup on the server was with a ghoul and then some drow. Well, she knows what ghouls are, but has never seen drow (Krynn doesn't have them). So she reacts accordingly. The ghoul, since it can talk and isn't mindlessly eating people, must be a puppet controlled by the wizard that raised it. The paladin in her wants nothing more than to slay the creature and return the body to its proper rest. The player in me knows that's not acceptable on Sigil. Of course she treats the drow like they are elves, why not? To get around this I have a specific backstory (to be revealed over time) that makes my paladin less prone to violence unless she has to be. And, that's just one example. You have a multitude of definitely evil creatures walking around, and it's OK per the IC laws of Sigil and lore of the setting. That's not an easy thing for a good PC to be around.

Hitting a wall: The other big factor is good PCs tend to have goals like changing the lives of others, changing the world, making it a better place, etc. The social structure, laws, caste system, and faction system are extremely rigid in Sigil. While a good PC might change the lives of a few individuals, they will never measure up to much in the big picture. For evil PCs this is rarely an issue. They are used to working in the shadows, and their major goal tends to be the accumulation of wealth or power through means not so wholesome, or sometimes they just want to be left alone. Sigil's politics and lore are much more friendly to the latter form of RP than the former.

So in essence to play a good PC you have to simply accept the unacceptable to the point that you feel like you are playing a neutral PC anyway, and you can't set your sights too high in character, because OOC you know it won't amount to much except frustration.

[*Agony_Aunt]

First, yes I would love to play on a raveloft server ;)

Well, we have vampires and stuff now... so who wants to start making the demi-plane of Dread? :D

[*lukehall]

I wouldn't have thought good would have much of a problem compared to evil or neutral and instead I would have thought neutral would be the most difficult (though perhaps the most rewarding) to play.

It may be that I am misinterpreting the alignments, but surely they only have to tend towards their alignment. As long as the character is generally virtuous they can have negative personality traits. I also wouldn't have thought you have to be immediately trusting? Just because you're good doesn't mean you need to be gullible, surely you can roll to try and determine if they're trying to trick/use you? (shame there's no sense motive)

In the case of Vrakroth, he's lawful good (bronze dragon alignment) so he should tend towards that. He is however a dragon and so will be greedy and arrogant, so it might be that when adventuring with others there may be a discrepancy between what he and the rest of the party thinks is his fair share. I would think that if this is resolved via negotiation then there is no trend towards evil and he is still conducting himself in a lawful manner.

The same would work for displaying the arrogance, if someone doesn't show the proper respect for him (silly fey calling him runty :P) then it is not evil of him to not be too willing to help (or maybe apply a courtesy tax ;))

Those are my thoughts at least, its interesting to see what others think.

*pokes Tomekk* he's still low level if you want someone for your monk to join