Terrible Woes Of Playing A Fighter On Sigil

[*Godolia il Magus]

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Structurally, casters don't need any particular change, my idea (which I think is correct, in theory) is that the only things that need readjusting are mainly the spells and maybe some few other magical abilities.

[*rapsam2003]

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Structurally, casters don't need any particular change, my idea (which I think is correct, in theory) is that the only things that need readjusting are mainly the spells and maybe some few other magical abilities.

Which is...basically "everything" for casters...

You're not only asking the builders to rework tons and tons of spells; you're also asking for all casters to basically be reworked. If even the need is justifiable (I don't think it is), is the cost of all those volunteer man hours truly worth the actual benefit?

Even if you give the warrior some dignity and fun, he will still be the bottom of the heap just in a few more levels. It would be a way more acceptable situation, as I've proposed, but still not enough.

Obviously, since 5E by default is not intended to have adventures where PCs end up at level 20+, there's not a lot of class features given past level 18. (5E doesn't have many high level adventures.) Fighter specific feats along the same basic lines as those abilities mentioned for the 5E Champion could be done for higher levels.

It's also worth noting that there's already some discussion of "melee feats" here: Melee Feats thread. Edit: Of particular interest to me are these suggestions:

Viscious Blow- The Fighter can inflict Critical Hits on things that are immune to crits. This feat requires Power Attack to unlock.

    Relentless Attack- +1d4 damage when using a melee weapon that you have a Focus for. This feat can be taken once for every full six levels of Fighter

     Heroic Resolve- The Fighter is Immune to Fear. This feat can only be taken by someone with ten levels of Fighter

[*Leona]

I think currently least magical and most fighter like and still be somewhat awesome sauce in the upper levels youd want possibly a build like 12fighter 7wm 5 FB 6 Half-Dragon template. Do get style points for putting it on a halfling and speacilizing in Mace.

this wouldn't be possible. Half-dragon gives you ECL 2 so at most you could hit level 28.

[*Born2BeWild]

you are missing the point and seriously missing out on the fun.

don't judge other people preferences in gameplay

[*Jelkia]

Think the issue is more that most non casters sorta got one solution to their problems. They got ah hammer.. an gotta hope everything that's causing them trouble is nail shaped.

Casters.. well..

Sneak Attacks/Crits? No thanks.. ah gotta spell for that!

Elemental/Energy Damage? No thanks.. ah gotta spell for that!

Mind Control? No thanks.. ah gotta spell for that!

Wish ah had more HP? Yeah.. ah gotta spell for that!

Skill checks too low? Just ah sec.. ah gotta spell for that!

My attack bonus is too low.. Hey! Ah gotta spell for that!

This creature is bashin my face in! D=... Oh wait.. ah gotta spell that'll stop that!

Something's invisible around me an ah can't do nothing about it... Hey! Ah got a spell for that!

Wish my weapon could hurt stuff ah bit more.. Hey! Ah gotta spell for that!

Gee its dark in here... Hey! Ah gotta spell for that!

If ah were just ah bit stronger, faster, hardier, smarter, deeper thinking, er better speaking.. Huh.. ah got a spell for all of them!

That creature's covered in magic wards and is right wrecking me.. No worries! Ah gotta spell for that!

That thing's scurry! =< (Lookin at ya Hellfire Erie).. But that's alright.. Ah gotta spell for that!

Lotsa stuff around ah don't wanna fight... wish ah could just skip em.. Oh right! Ah gotta spell for that!

Oh noes! Ah'm bleedin out! Help! :( Oh wait..never mind.. Ah gotta spell for that!

That thing's got death spells er some sorta negative level stuff... ick!... Nah.. just kidding.. ah gotta spell for that. =D

Those creatures keep knocking me down.. Well.. good thing ah gotta spell for that!

Huh.. cant tell what this item is.. Meh.. Ah gotta spell for that.

Wish ah could take.. ah.. maybe 10 less damage from every hit? Hey ah gotta spell for that!

Ya know.. ah don't wanna fight that stuff. Wish ah had ah friend to fight fore me that ah aint got to pay fore an don't care if they get nicked. Yep! Gotta spell for that.



Non Caster... unless they got help from ah caster in the form ah scroll er magic item.. cause.. that non caster didn't make ah potion.. er jot down ah scroll.. er enchant magic gear for themselves.. >.>

Ah gotta hammer.. let's solve some problems!

Awww damn.. My enemy/nail just turned invisible...

Welp.. guess ah'm done here...


When yer talking about yer enemy being just ah sack ah HP with some AC around it.. sure.. fighters what ya want. Soon as yer enemy goes beyond hp/ac things start becoming trouble for the guy who's only got one answer to work with. Most caster's just gotta pick different spells to fix the problem. Pickin ah different sword's only gonna go so far. >.>

Most ah the time.. round here.. fighter can get tha job done but they're still gonna need ah caster at some point to help em out. Some times they can't survive period without one. Sure caster's gotta rest more.. but resting more an being able to do is better than not resting more and being unable to do.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Yep, you nailed it quite well, Jelkia. That's my general thoughts of what being a fighter is.

[*Godolia il Magus]

Sneak Attacks/Crits? No thanks.. ah gotta spell for that!

Elemental/Energy Damage? No thanks.. ah gotta spell for that!

Mind Control? No thanks.. ah gotta spell for that!

Wish ah had more HP? Yeah.. ah gotta spell for that!

Skill checks too low? Just ah sec.. ah gotta spell for that!

My attack bonus is too low.. Hey! Ah gotta spell for that!

This creature is bashin my face in! D=... Oh wait.. ah gotta spell that'll stop that!

Something's invisible around me an ah can't do nothing about it... Hey! Ah got a spell for that!

Wish my weapon could hurt stuff a bit more.. Hey! Ah gotta spell for that!

Gee its dark in here... Hey! Ah gotta spell for that!

If ah were just ah bit stronger, faster, hardier, smarter, deeper thinking, er better speaking.. Huh.. ah got a spell for all of them!

That creature's covered in magic wards and is right wrecking me.. No worries! Ah gotta spell for that!

That thing's scurry! =< (Lookin at ya Hellfire Erie).. But that's alright.. Ah gotta spell for that!

Lotsa stuff around ah don't wanna fight... wish ah could just skip em.. Oh right! Ah gotta spell for that!

Oh noes! Ah'm bleedin out! Help!  :(     Oh wait..never mind.. Ah gotta spell for that!

That thing's got death spells er some sorta negative level stuff... ick!... Nah.. just kidding.. ah gotta spell for that. =D

Those creatures keep knocking me down.. Well.. good thing ah gotta spell for that!

Huh.. cant tell what this item is.. Meh.. Ah gotta spell for that.

Wish ah could take.. ah.. maybe 10 less damage from every hit? Hey ah gotta spell for that!

Ya know.. ah don't wanna fight that stuff. Wish ah had ah friend to fight fore me that ah aint got to pay fore an don't care if they get nicked. Yep! Gotta spell for that.

Counter-argument!

[*Strawberry Jam]

1 3 6 9 etc. Thats standard progression for gaining feats. Fighter gets that in addition to every even level so it goes 1234689 Etc.

the optimization feats are new feats. they not been around that long, which improves survivbilty .

If paladin was easy , I have wonder why we never see any.

Oh well that's just how it is with every class. To be fair sorcerer doesn't get those feats either, and Psion doesn't get anything even tho it's supposed to.

Ceremorph has the right idea I think, Paladin gets a bunch of immunities, high saves, edm and so on. I think if you're playing another melee class and you want feats then dipping into fighter or divine champion is an easy thing.

  Think the issue is more that most non casters sorta got one solution to their problems. They got ah hammer.. an gotta hope everything that's causing them trouble is nail shaped.

Luckily everything on Sigil seems nail shaped, you just got to smash smash smash and it falls down. I've got regeneration now so as long as I survive I never need to rest anywhere.

Unfortunately for casters their hammers are very delicate and sometimes those nails have saving throws that exceed those hammer DC's

But hey if you think those spells are nifty you can buy them, or just get items that do the same. If your character is made with no concept of defense then you don't complain the physically weakest class is too powerful because they might have a spell.

Paladin is a good example again, they have quite a few immunities and great saves, same with monk. Getting even crit immunity isn't hard either, just ask an npc to cast it, use a scroll, or heck just soak it up with three times or more hp than a caster gets. I got regen now, I can get back anything I lose without doing a thing =)

[*Jelkia]

If yer even level 1 Wizard is 'fragile'.. then.. ya might wanna work on yer warding? O.o

Shield an Mage Armor gives ya +8 AC. That's ah suit ah full plate.

Level 1 non casters don't start with full plate.

<edit> Ah guess that's level 2 wizard. Level 1 might have to finagle summoning ah pet an letting that fight for them. Being able to get free help is rough. But even level 2 non casters don't usually got fullplate on.

Casters are.. even the clothy folk.. mostly more durable than non casters. If yer having ah problem survivin.. ask someone who's good at wizardin fer help. Ah'm sure they can getcha set up with ways for survivin better. It may be short term durability in some cases.. but they got it where the non caster's dont.

Now ah can roll with the idea of needin to work on DC's. That's ah reasonable caster foil. But.. um.. if the DC's fer late game stuff needs to be adjusted that's somethin ya should maybe bring up in ah suggestions thread in that forum. Maybe get some of the numbers an put em up an make ah case fer gettin em changed? Might do ya more good there then back handedly going on about it in ah -mocking the non caster's- kinda thread.

But hey if you think those spells are nifty you can buy them, or just get items that do the same.

So.. if the non caster just does what it takes to emulate ah caster.. then they too can be caster powerful? Neat! ^.^

But uh.. can't casters buy that same stuff an not have to use their spell slots.. an don't need UMD cause they're already casters... and aren't there specific items set out fer casters to use.. like battle mage stafs? O.o

Cause at the bottom ah all this.. sounds like casters are still coming out on top.. an still proving ta be necessary for non casters to get things done. Sounds like yer comparison is non casters can just pay to be temporary casters now an then... uh.. if they build for it an.. uh.. have the money to continually have those effects available. XD

[*Tomekk]

I'm sure all those additional costs don't add up, and you already have +5 gear and are ready to solo the Lower Planes, relying completely on your own abilities? :)

Really, you're just pointing out how much gold they need to spend on temporary survival and how much they rely on other classes' abilities to make them viable by now. :P