Coming Soon - Demonologist Prestige Class

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*Devil's Elysium
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Devil's Elysium »


Juurane,Feb 13 2015 wrote: So... what about the Hellfire Warlock then, would THEY be able to become Demonologist?
I hate to be eternally campaigning on behalf of warlocks, but..why not? Sure, we don't get a lot of summons, but it fits the theme of the class (especially hellfire warlocks) perfectly. Yes, we don't have a real fiend summon beyond the HFW Summon Baatezu ability - I consider this to be a flaw born of poor invocation selection on Obsidian's behalf. Hell, we can still take Epic Gate, right?

Also, if a warlock wants to select demonologist despite the lack of direct bonuses, isn't that kind of more reason to let them? If your dedication to a theme is enough to gimp yourself, why not support it, or at the very least allow it?
*Jambi
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Jambi »


I will be making a Demonologist today, too prove my points. Cheesy build Rogue / Wizard / Cleric / Demonologist. Able learner human. Demonologist levels start at 7 so pets is going to OP for my level range.

Basicly enough skillpoints too max out:
Concentration
Heal
Listen
Open Lock
Spot
Disable Device
Search

30 Tumble
30 Spellcraft
15 UMD

So that rules out needing a rogue.

Cleric level + Tower shield prof. Still magic 0-3 0-6 0-9, buffs AC skyhigh and being able too spam heal kits on me with maxed out healing skill. Luck Domain / Water domain for extra AC and Evasion. Improved Combat expertise. Survival secured.

Petting Zoo, if i am not already a tank myself.. i have plenty of pets to distract an tank for me. while i blast away spells. And am able too heal them. Augment elemental feat for lols

Wont be needing equipment until later levels.

Practised Spellcaster, Spellcasting prodigy. Base 25+ spell level DC makes all my buffs undisppelable, unless Mords.

persistant spell, extend spell, maximize spell :wub:

Base of 19 Fort / 14 reflex / 21 will saves

Time spend making the build : 2 minutes. Probably able too make it more powerfull if cared :tongue:
Here we go! let the cheese commence!
:beer:

Could swap out the Cleric level, and cancel the automated still spell feat and search / lockpicking etc skills . Take Move Silent / hide , take a SD level for HiPS. and pick other feats . Toughness and epic toughness feats IE.
Ditch human and capable learner, rogue class / skills. and get a +1-3 ECL race instead also possible. SR race rcommended
*Ceremorph
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Ceremorph »


Jambi, can you please verify that you're getting the correct low-tier summons, and which alignment you are? It should either be:

Phlegethian Erinyes
9 HD (4 Outsider, 5 Ranger)

or

Incubus
9 HD (4 Outsider, 5 Frezerker)

Also please provide what it is you feel is "ridiculously strong" about these summons.


*Tubbles
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Tubbles »


Which henchman is it that Neutral Evil gets?
*Ceremorph
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Ceremorph »


NE gets the Incubus.
*Jambi
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Jambi »


Ceremorph,Feb 13 2015 wrote: Also please provide what it is you feel is "ridiculously strong" about these summons.
A level 12 running around with a 180 HP Canian Erinyes, wich also even can be buffed to topping over 30 AC, i think is a bit rediculous. I seen one clean a 5 man party frost salamander GC spawn out all by itself without even coming close to being hurt. while the whole party lay dead on the floor.

Where a normal level 12 character will be desperate too get enough Jink together too pay for a piece of equipment.... or safe up for a level 15 henchman, that doesnt even come close too a Demonologist pet.
A demonologist could just go out unequipped, and make piles of corpses staying back and let the summon handle it, and laugh on the way too the bank.

Level 15~ demonologist unlock the new pet.
Nessian Erinyes.
This time 30 ac, and able too buff it up more.
Whopping 225 Hitpoint.
Crit dmg :blink: , and an AB and dmg output that just cuts thru most stuff like butter. No problem cutting thru Silver / Cold iron DR's.

Overall, you put a normally leveled PC of level 15 - any class against one of these... they will get demolished by the Nessian Erinyes. Ive seen it happen, when they bugged out and gone wild...

So in my experience, not only the Pet is way too powerfull to be equal too a PC of that level. But also the fact that the pet master him/herself can also spam spells and be a functioning spellslinger. aka supporting you pet with spamming buffs on it, and spam Isaac's.

But too be fair, i am not sure how Demonologists scale at higher levels. 20+



TL:DR
On low level 0-~18
Demonologist can level without having too spend a penny.
Demonologist gets a free pet, that is more powerfull then other henchman affordable/available at that level.
Demonologist itself is a functioning damage output source. ie isaac's.
Demonologist inherit base class allows them too protect their henchman from harm. ie Mind-Affecting buffs.

Other classes will most likely have to resort to re-visiting lower areas over and over too grind loot, too get a full set of equipment too allow them too hunt at their level range. Wich is in my own example.
Having too spend 3000 Jink for a half-decent henchman, wich has 2 uses. Is simply not worth it, with crashes or server downs, transition bugs.


Ofcourse, some classes are stronger then other classes at a given level. But i do feel that demonologist is just way too much up there.
*Ceremorph
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Ceremorph »


Not too hard to make a human favored soul/paladin build and sprint to 20 either.

Doing some testing though, what I discovered was that these erinyes somehow has smarter AI than other monsters, including the incubi. I mean, it's really nice to see an NPC using its powers properly, but that definitely explains the superiority over the incubus, who I may have to tweak to put more in line with the girls. In the head-to-head, he spent several rounds doing stupid things, all the while the erinyes kept smacking him so by the time he was ready to fight back he was down to half his hit points.

My favorite though was making her fight the Astral Deva summons from Gate, who was smart enough to keep dispelling her. Still, in doing some "pokemon battle" testing, I think I've got what needs to be done to both summons: possibly a slight AC decrease and different favored enemies for the erinyes, and a rework of the incubus so he doesn't depend on the power attack/frenzy combo of stupidity.
*Lucadia
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Lucadia »


I dont know if this is related, but since the update. the AI on the Guardian Naga has declined. It used go straight spell casting mode unleasing about 20 spells and backing away in distance to do it. Now its started use one or two spell and goes into melee.
*Jambi
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Jambi »


I will get too level 12, for the 2nd Erinyes, and GC Frost salamders, so i can confirm for myself and for my friends, that we werent tripping the other day. thinking it was OP.

After this little test. i will rebuild the character and this time take Demonologit 1 leve learlier , but with a diffrent alignment to feed data and observations on the other pets, if thats ok.
wrote:In the case of pvp, any cleric or wizard with actual caster levels will be able to just dismiss your pets.

I was avoiding trying get in range of a demononlist that was soloing in the abyss last night, didnt want kill it by accident
tested this. and your completely right. The summon dies isntantly :lol: but there is a way to cheese that.

But ill not discuss that here.
Send you a PM Ceremorph
*Devil's Elysium
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Devil's Elysium »


I've now witnessed the Demonologist in action, and...they're totally fine. In order for Aslya to have the pet be effective she has to consume pretty much every single spell per day, to the point where if a mob decides to ignore her pet and go for her, there really isn't much she can do about it.
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